Cutting and Stacking Frame Vs Z'ing The Frame

[49 Ford Rat]

I have a 49 f1 orgionaly i was just going to channel the body 10" because i dont have the experience and skill to Z the frame, but then a forum member convinced me others wise, and thought it would be better if I find someone that i know that could Z the frame.

Recently I saw a pic of a truck (same as mine) just cut the frame and stack the back half on top of the middle half of the frame and welded them together, so would this work? is it just as stong and safe as the traditional way to Z frame? any reasons not to do it?

Help is greatly appreciated

 

[rainman]

It can be done in a safe way, but you should take time and box it when you're done!! When you make you're cut, it works good to use an angle
cut. Then when you put it back together it already starts to blend, and lengthens the weld!!

If I new how to draw on the comp. I would give you an idea of what I mean!!

 

[49 Ford Rat]

It can be done in a safe way, but you should take time and box it when you're done!! When you make you're cut, it works good to use an angle
cut. Then when you put it back together it already starts to blend, and lengthens the weld!!

If I new how to draw on the comp. I would give you an idea of what I mean!!

Thank You and ya I like your idea of making cuts at an angle, the one i saw was a straight vertical cut on the frame.

Is boxing it mean, to cover the weld location with steal plating all around? maybe I dont make sense either,lol, but id like to know what boxing it means.

 

[rainman]

Is the frame you're talking about square, (box), or c channel, (open on one side)??
I was assuming you were talking about an older frame which would be
c channel!!
If it's C boxing means to finish the inside (or open) side with plate, to make it a box!!
If you have a box frame you would want to put fish plates on the inside and outside of the frame!!
Fish plates would cover up the welds you made putting the frame together!!

Hope this makes sense to you? Any more questions, I'll be glad to try and help!!!

 

[49 Ford Rat]

Is the frame you're talking about square, (box), or c channel, (open on one side)??
I was assuming you were talking about an older frame which would be
c channel!!
If it's C boxing means to finish the inside (or open) side with plate, to make it a box!!
If you have a box frame you would want to put fish plates on the inside and outside of the frame!!
Fish plates would cover up the welds you made putting the frame together!!

Hope this makes sense to you? Any more questions, I'll be glad to try and help!!!

yes, its the orginal frame so it would be a c channel, I understand now what you mean by boxing, but should i box just that one location where the new weld and stacked frame is at? or box the whole frame?

Thanks

 

[Sam_Fear]

You only need to box the part that is Z'd. ...and 6"-12" on either side would be best. You want to angle it, at least in the front, because otherwise you will have to pull one section over the other - in the process you will have shortened it also. If you cut at a 45 degree angle, not need to move one section for them to overlap.

Is this going to be fenderless with the front axle out front?

Keep in mind, if you do a stacked Z, you will only drop it the height of the frame rail.

 

[IAM-LDS-2]

Keep in mind, if you do a stacked Z, you will only drop it the height of the frame rail.

This is the key statement in this whole discussion . If you need more distance than the frame rail , you can still stack it by adding a piece between the original frame rails . The wider the sandwich piece the greater the zee .

 

[hotrod preacher]

i want to scare everyone on here by saying that "z-ing" a frame is not that difficult... i did it, and i even did a unique style of front end treatment too....all using the stock frame... an ability to make good safe welds is the most important part-and being able to measure...


here is a link to my build thread - thought you might enjoy it

http://ratrodsrule.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4475&highlight=hotrod+preacher+project+52+ford

 

[rainman]

What they said!!

 

[Sam_Fear]

HRP - I was looking for your build! Didn't remember who did it , I just remembered the pie cuts on the frame. Good example of what can be done with a stock frame - front and back.

 

[49 Ford Rat]

Thanks everyone for all the info, and thanks preacher adding the build thread. I think im going to go with you stack idea on the rear.

Now I was planning on using the stock suspension setup and just moving the axle/leafs 10" forward. now after I move it all forward can I still wedge the frame in the front or the "pie cuts", would i run into any problems? or is this something you can only do with the axle up front like you have.

If not i may end up just try my take at making the axle setup up front like you have.

Thanks

 

[Sam_Fear]

You need to take the fenders off one side, sit down on a bucket, and stare at it for a couple hours. Figure out where you need your Z's, what happens if you Z it in different spots, if your original springs will still work, if you'll need to cut into the cab, where your drive train is gonna sit, etc. etc.

There's a good chance that spring set up won't fit with a pie cut. Moving the axle out front will cost a few bucks for some of the necessary parts - but it will look much much better, and a suicide front axle is just plain cool.

 

[49 Ford Rat]

thank You, also could you give me rough estimate about how much money in parts it woulds cost to do a suicide front?

also can I buy a front perch mount? i looks like alot of people make them.

I can use the original axle right?

also if you wouldnt mind giving me a parts list in order to do it that would be great, or refer me to a build thread that would show me.

Thank You

 

[shockley_67]

thank You, also could you give me rough estimate about how much money in parts it woulds cost to do a suicide front?

also can I buy a front perch mount? i looks like alot of people make them.

I can use the original axle right?

also if you wouldnt mind giving me a parts list in order to do it that would be great, or refer me to a build thread that would show me.

Thank You

speedway has all the front end pieces including the front mount you are thinking of. go to there web site sppedwaymotors.com and check them out. order one of thier free catologs, makes it easier to flip back and fourth in the pages and decide what you want. well it did for me.
do a search on suicde front ends and you will get an idea of what you want.

 

[Sam_Fear]

Hey, I kinda re-read this thread. Don't let me or anyone push you into something you are not prepared for financially or capability-wise. Your truck will look way better with a 5" stacked Z and the stock axle arrangement over a big unfinished mess because you got in over your head.

The suicide front end can be done a hundred+ different ways. You really need to study what you want.

In the mean time, maybe a solution would be to do the stacked Z like you were thinking. Keep it fairly simple for now by keeping the stock axle and spring configuration. Then down the road maybe do a pie cut Z to lower it a bit more and suicide the axle.

 

[shockley_67]

^^^^^ good point

 

[49 Ford Rat]

Hey, I kinda re-read this thread. Don't let me or anyone push you into something you are not prepared for financially or capability-wise. Your truck will look way better with a 5" stacked Z and the stock axle arrangement over a big unfinished mess because you got in over your head.

The suicide front end can be done a hundred+ different ways. You really need to study what you want.

In the mean time, maybe a solution would be to do the stacked Z like you were thinking. Keep it fairly simple for now by keeping the stock axle and spring configuration. Then down the road maybe do a pie cut Z to lower it a bit more and suicide the axle.

ya i think your right, I haven't really thought about it, but ya i would hate to get in over my head like you said, (which is a pretty good chance).

I'll just do the rear stack and then after I get the engine mounted and it all running I could always put a suicide front with the engine still mounted. Because i still like the pie cut and suicide ideas.

Thanks for everyones help you have all been very helpful

 

[49 Ford Rat]

Another questions, when i stack the rear of the frame can I leave the cab on? Is there any reason i should take the cab off at all through my whole project?

Thanks