dads 59

[jared nelson]

hello again, so this build is still in the works, slow process but want input and feedback so Here we go, I plan on ratting out my late fathers 59 ford f100, it needs to be user friendly so my wife and daughter can drive it. I dug and dragged her out of the woods, found, purchased and picked up a donor truck, a 86 f150 short box 5.0 auto 2 wheel drive which ALL my friends think im nuts cutting up lol The tranny needs attention, or replacing as it has no o/d.
The plan is to cut the cab, foor and firewall out of the doner truck and, channel the 59 and build the 59 on too the 86 frame and driveline. wheelbase matches ok, instruments will be compatible for the most part lol but I want her slammed and don't want to air ride her just yet. so front suspension is the area I'm looking for advice it, 86 has the crappy wishbone, id like to put the crown vic in her however I can't find any good info like there is for 60-70 ford truck swaps. 3" wishbone lowering kits run $800-1000 so im wondering if anyone had advice? time vs cost vs ease of build vs ????

 

[jared nelson]

 

[jared nelson]

I have a cool pic of both trucks but can't it to post, ugh I'll keep trying lol

 

[jared nelson]

I have a cool pic of both trucks but can't it to post, ugh I'll keep trying lol

 

[jared nelson]

I know where I can get a crown vic for $150 and will get my $$ back at in scap but for what I want and what I want to achieve vs time and fab is it worth it? not looking to build drag or show t truck by any means just a daily driver... well And a tire melter haha

 

[gene49]

I'm not a Ford guy, but I have done a few frame swaps, and I have done a few suspension swaps on to different frames. Both can be pretty challenging experiences each, by themselves, and now you are thinking about adding the two together. Not saying you can't do it, but then I don't know how much experience you have doing things like this. I'm suspecting not much, so I will suggest where I start every project like this.

Start by parking the 86 truck side by side with the 59, with both front wheel dust caps sided by side. Then open both hoods. You want to look closely at a few things before you jump in.
1) How does the motor sit in relation to the the front tires on both trucks? Some sit with the motor centered over the front suspension/tires, some sit with the motor behind the front suspension/tires, and some sit with the motor ahead of the front suspension/tires. That can make a big difference on the next points.
2) How the 86 motor wold fit against the 59 firewall is a biggie. That 86 motor may fit well with the 59 firewall, or it may sit too far forward, or too far backwards. Cutting the firewall for motor clearance is not unusual, but the deeper the motor sits into the passenger compartment, the smaller the cab gets, and the more complex everything gets.
3) How does the 86 radiator location match up with grill/front end of the 59? A lot of older trucks have pretty short front ends, and the cabs sit forward on the frame more. Could be a problem with both the firewall and the radiator clearance. Expect that you are likely going to have to cut the front end of the 86 frame off, and you will also most likely need to fabricate the radiator, front fender support, and front bumper mounting brackets.
4) Generally, swapping an older cab onto a newer frame tends to lower the old truck cab. The older frame generally sat higher then the newer stuff, so the old cabs were already channeled on the old frames. When those old cabs move to newer frames, the tend to sit inches lower to the ground. Adding the CV subframe may lower the front another few inches.
5) Walk around to the rear axle. Are both in the correct position so the tire will be centered in the rear fenders? You may have to modify the rear of the 86 frame/rear suspension location so the rear tires will be centered in the 59's wheel openings. You may also have to cut the back end off the 86 frame and fabricate the rear bed side mounting and rear bumper brackets.

Parking the two vehicles side by side will give you an idea how big of a project you may, or my not have. Adding in the Crown Vic subframe may make some stuff easier, or make it all a lot harder. That subframe may alter the motor to the front frame/front tires in a positive or a negative way, but may also allow you to move the front tire location on the frame for a better fit.

Next, I would start with looking into installing the Crown Vic front suspension onto the 86 frame, see if that has been done and if anyone has recorded the process of doing it. I would guess that process would most likely drop the front end of the 86 truck frame down a few inches, the CV subframe will probably be bolted to the 86 frame. That process would be much easier if the frame was not under a body, and without a motor/trans in the way. The motor & trans may bolt onto the CV subframe with factory parts after the clip has been added to the frame (and after the frame has been installed in the truck), that is why I would start there.

Once that is complete, then the next part is to put the "new" modified frame under the 59. Every frame swap has its own set of issues. The biggest problem with frame swaps is the relationship between the front tire fitment in the front fenders (and the rear tires in the rear fenders) and then how the motor location on that frame fits in relation to the firewall of the old cab. Its not unusual to have to cut the firewall for motor clearance. That can make things get a bit tight inside of the truck. Sometime over the course of a 27 year span, Ford may have accidentally made a bunch of parts that fit together like it was an intended event, but then there are those other times when it seems the opposite goal was in mind.

 

[Bonehead]

My son built this old Ford for the Gambler 500. It will do 80 on the interstate, has cruise control, and airbags. It is a Ford Explorer underneath, and he cut off the body with the exception of the firewall. He took careful measurements and had to reroute electrical harness, but narrowed the firewall by about 4 inches total. He built this in just a few days, so was an easy build. It helped that the two vehicles were very close in size. He never finished it out, because he only ran it the one time. All 500 miles. He was lucky finding the right set up. I think in your case a body swap might work better. The Mustang is another of my son's Gambler cars, and is a body swap. to a Ford Ranger. It took more time, but is a lot cleaner build.

 

[jared nelson]

I have a cool pic of both trucks but can't it to post, ugh I'll keep trying lol

I'm not a Ford guy, but I have done a few frame swaps, and I have done a few suspension swaps on to different frames. Both can be pretty challenging experiences each, by themselves, and now you are thinking about adding the two together. Not saying you can't do it, but then I don't know how much experience you have doing things like this. I'm suspecting not much, so I will suggest where I start every project like this.

Start by parking the 86 truck side by side with the 59, with both front wheel dust caps sided by side. Then open both hoods. You want to look closely at a few things before you jump in.
1) How does the motor sit in relation to the the front tires on both trucks? Some sit with the motor centered over the front suspension/tires, some sit with the motor behind the front suspension/tires, and some sit with the motor ahead of the front suspension/tires. That can make a big difference on the next points.
2) How the 86 motor wold fit against the 59 firewall is a biggie. That 86 motor may fit well with the 59 firewall, or it may sit too far forward, or too far backwards. Cutting the firewall for motor clearance is not unusual, but the deeper the motor sits into the passenger compartment, the smaller the cab gets, and the more complex everything gets.
3) How does the 86 radiator location match up with grill/front end of the 59? A lot of older trucks have pretty short front ends, and the cabs sit forward on the frame more. Could be a problem with both the firewall and the radiator clearance. Expect that you are likely going to have to cut the front end of the 86 frame off, and you will also most likely need to fabricate the radiator, front fender support, and front bumper mounting brackets.
4) Generally, swapping an older cab onto a newer frame tends to lower the old truck cab. The older frame generally sat higher then the newer stuff, so the old cabs were already channeled on the old frames. When those old cabs move to newer frames, the tend to sit inches lower to the ground. Adding the CV subframe may lower the front another few inches.
5) Walk around to the rear axle. Are both in the correct position so the tire will be centered in the rear fenders? You may have to modify the rear of the 86 frame/rear suspension location so the rear tires will be centered in the 59's wheel openings. You may also have to cut the back end off the 86 frame and fabricate the rear bed side mounting and rear bumper brackets.

Parking the two vehicles side by side will give you an idea how big of a project you may, or my not have. Adding in the Crown Vic subframe may make some stuff easier, or make it all a lot harder. That subframe may alter the motor to the front frame/front tires in a positive or a negative way, but may also allow you to move the front tire location on the frame for a better fit.

Next, I would start with looking into installing the Crown Vic front suspension onto the 86 frame, see if that has been done and if anyone has recorded the process of doing it. I would guess that process would most likely drop the front end of the 86 truck frame down a few inches, the CV subframe will probably be bolted to the 86 frame. That process would be much easier if the frame was not under a body, and without a motor/trans in the way. The motor & trans may bolt onto the CV subframe with factory parts after the clip has been added to the frame (and after the frame has been installed in the truck), that is why I would start there.

Once that is complete, then the next part is to put the "new" modified frame under the 59. Every frame swap has its own set of issues. The biggest problem with frame swaps is the relationship between the front tire fitment in the front fenders (and the rear tires in the rear fenders) and then how the motor location on that frame fits in relation to the firewall of the old cab. Its not unusual to have to cut the firewall for motor clearance. That can make things get a bit tight inside of the truck. Sometime over the course of a 27 year span, Ford may have accidentally made a bunch of parts that fit together like it was an intended event, but then there are those other times when it seems the opposite goal was in mind.

Thanks! I won't hold it against you that your not a ford guy haha! I appreciate the input, you boosted my confidence by bringing up stuff already thought of (wheel base, frame langth and rad mounts) and some things I haven't like engine/front-end position.

 

[jared nelson]

My son built this old Ford for the Gambler 500. It will do 80 on the interstate, has cruise control, and airbags. It is a Ford Explorer underneath, and he cut off the body with the exception of the firewall. He took careful measurements and had to reroute electrical harness, but narrowed the firewall by about 4 inches total. He built this in just a few days, so was an easy build. It helped that the two vehicles were very close in size. He never finished it out, because he only ran it the one time. All 500 miles. He was lucky finding the right set up. I think in your case a body swap might work better. The Mustang is another of my son's Gambler cars, and is a body swap. to a Ford Ranger. It took more time, but is a lot cleaner build.

Yes! Someone who gets it lol, so many people I've told my plan to look at me like i have a third ear growing out my kneck lmao! That's pretty much the plan In my head, fitting the whole firewall and all necessary components (brakes, stearing, electrical, etc) from the 86 doner truck into the cab of the 59. Love the pics thanks

 

[gene49]

So, I know you said you wanted it slammed, but raising the cab up makes the job a lot easier. I've done either way several times. That 86 is not going to be easy to slam. Is it a 4x4? Do you intend to keep it a 4x4 (if it is now)?

<I turned this 50 Dodge 2 ton truck in to this v

1950 Dodge 4x4 mounted on a 1980 Dodge full sized 4x4 pickup frame. This truck did not have a modified floor or firewall, the cab was lifted 4" to clear the motor's automatic transmission bell housing.
I have a 7' high garage door on my garage, when sitting in the driver seat, looking through the windshield at about the center height of the glass, the open garage door was at eye sight level. The top of the roof was almost 9' in the air. It was a 4x4 and I used it to plow snow for 12 years! This truck was killed in a head on crash in 2011.


On the other extreme, I turned this v,

and this 1993 Dakota 4x4 frame v,

But cutting this much out of the cab floor, to clear the 5.2 V8, auto trans bolted on the factory motor mounts (notice the Dakota 4x4 transmission tunnel laying inside of the cab). v

Into this 49 Dodge 4x4 pickup. v

This 4x4 truck, with the frame still completely stock, has about 7" of ground clearance between the bottom of the running boards and the ground. This truck gets parked in the same garage with the 7' high door. This truck is my winter driver (we have snow and salt on the roads here in the winter). I intend to drive it until it, or I drop dead.
Though the trucks look about the same, the 1st truck was killed in a head on crash in 2011. The 2nd truck was 1st licensed in June 2022 (there is already more then 26,000 miles on it).

 

[lowbudget50]

This will be cool!! I will be watching

 

[jared nelson]

This will be cool!! I will be watching

Im chomping at the bit to start this build lol it will be a fun learning experience!! have you had any experience lowering a mid 80's ford truck? I would love to put the Crown vic front end in however
time × fabrication × effort × cost = final outcome gas me leaning towards the wishbone drop kit

 

[lowbudget50]

Throw all that stuff away put a crown Vic under it

 

[lowbudget50]

Im chomping at the bit to start this build lol it will be a fun learning experience!! have you had any experience lowering a mid 80's ford truck? I would love to put the Crown vic front end in however
time × fabrication × effort × cost = final outcome gas me leaning towards the wishbone drop kit

Do some measuring. Especially if you can buy that crown Vic for $150. Those front cross members on bolt with four bolts drop the main cross member down and then there's eight bolts that drop the where are the lower arm out. I almost bet money that it's pretty much a bolting deal to that frame on that '80s Ford. You will be way happier with it with the crown vic. It will drive better it will handle better. It's just going to be a better truck.