GGFD

[Dirtyrat]

Can you elaborate on the mounts a bit, I'm curious if you plan on adding any gussets where the mount is welded to the frame? I tend to over engineer things, so I guess I wanted other's opinions on whether or not with the mount design, and the attachment to the frame, if its enough?

 

[DJ3100]

Looking good. Knowin' Doug there'll be gussets and cross brace(s).

Your frame is a lot higher on that motor than mine.

 

[AZ4GEMAN]

There will have to be some gussets. I want to get the air bags and associated brackets in place first to make sure it all fits. Space is tight.

 

[AZ4GEMAN]

I built some temporary brackets today to check suspension travel. Nothing really worth photos. Plan to tack it all together tomorrow and work it through the range of motion to make sure everything clears.

Photos will follow.

Today I ordered a March serpentine belt and bracket system for the BBC that is going on this rig. I had previously purchased a SBC display unit from a local rod shop that went out of business. The March Tech guys were very helpful. They were willing to work with me to make the best use of the parts I had instead trying to sell me a new serpintine kit.

As a result I ended up with the exact parts I needed rather cobbling something together.

 

[AZ4GEMAN]

Here is the latest. After much head scratching and experimentation it seems to work.

4 link is 1-3/8 (.120) chromo. Weld bungs are also chromo from Midwest Control. Urethane rod ends are forged chromo from Mid America. Mounting tabs are 1/4 X 2 mild steel.

Upper links are about 17".o.c, lowers are 23". Bolts are Gr 8 with fiber locks.

The air bag pictured is a Firestone unit. I'll probably go with Slam Specialties units due to higher travel and larger ports and higher [p.s.i.].

Suspension travel is about 6 inches from slammed "Parade Rest" driving position.

The caster angle is about 6 degrees at ride/drive height and 0 degrees at show height/parade rest.

 

[AZ4GEMAN]

One step forward, 2 steps back

Everything was going well but today it all went in the toilet. The suspension travel and caster worked out as planned.
The first problem was locating the radiator core support. This project has been a giant jig saw puzzle. The fenders do not mount to the cab, but instead attach to the inner panels. These are in turn located by the core support and it all kinda floats on rubber mounts.
Once all of this was in place the next task was to locate the grille in relation to the fenders. The body parts are in really pristine condition so I don't want to modify them unless absolutely necessary. The grille needed to be about 3-1/2 inches lower to match up. In lieu of cutting it the choice was to relocate the upper 4 link brackets 4 inches rearward. According to my soapstone CAD calculations this was doable without adverse effects on the desired caster settings.
The next problem was how to steer this beast. It needs power steering due to the size of the tires and the arc created by the king pin placement and wheel offset. I had planned to use the Saginaw box from the motor home chassis mounted with a fore to aft pitman arm travel. That all went out the window due to clearance problems.

Next post, How I solved the steering problem.

 

[AZ4GEMAN]

Solving the steering problem

I learned a lot about power steering systems from one of our local specialists. DJ 3100 turned me on to them and they have been a great resource. I don't want to pimp for them but will share info with anyone who is interested. There are probably local shops in your area with similiar expertise.

These local guys have an amazing selection of cores. The first thing you need to do is find a unit that can be mounted in the allocated space. We started with an-inside-the-frame mount casting (Ford F250 in this case) It would not clear the exhaust manifold. We tried a top of the frame HD Toyota unit. It was a possible with some serious fabtication. We finally tried a Saginaw unit from an International Scout with an outside-the-frame mount. This turned out to be what was needed.

One of the great things I learned was that they can configure these boxes for either CW or CCW rotation on the output shaft. The "reverse" rotation shaft adds about $100 to the cost of a rebuild.


I always thought you were stuck with output shaft rotation. This really expanded the possiblities.

Hope this helps

 

[earthman]

I rank this info right there with the u-joints that adapt two different sized yokes.
You can build a hot rod with info like this.

 

[AZ4GEMAN]

Took a break for the past few days and went to see the Mullin Collection in Oxnard, CA. Fabulous French Art Nouveau and Art Deco cars from the 30's and 40's. It is only open 2 days per month and you need reservations, but well worth the effort. Check them out on the web.

http://www.mullinautomotivemuseum.com/the-collection.html

Now it is back to work on this project in the morning. Someone suggested that I post fewer words and more pictures. I'll try to do just that.

Doug

 

[earthman]

Thanks for validating that the project is still on track

 

[AZ4GEMAN]

It has been a while since I last posted but I have been busy. The biggest improvement was moving the project inside. It took a couple of days to rearrange the furniture and move the roadster project into storage. Working at eye level sure has made life easier.

Placing the 4 links ahead of the axle turned out to be a bad strategy. It created too many problems so it was back to the drawing board. I drew up a full size frame layout on a sheet of cardboardand used strips of sheet metal to simulate the 4 links. I tried various lengths and pivot points until it all worked out. The upper link is 18 inches and the lower is 27.

The steering box is a Saginaw unit from an IHC Scout. It has a reversed screw to obtain the correct motion.

Photos show some of the details of the suspension.

 

[DJ3100]

Good thing you only built the front half of the frame.

This layout looks like a winner - What's next?

 

[AZ4GEMAN]

A little more progress

Looks like this is finally going to work. I dropped it down as far as it will go and everything cleared. Spent today designing and cutting out a crossmember for the air bags. Looks like I'll have to raise the engins/trans about 1 inch for it all to clear with a reasonable margin for error.

 

[AZ4GEMAN]

X member and body mount detail

These pieces were band sawed from 3/16 plate. The rib between the 2 pieces of the X member is 1/4 X 3 flat bar. I used a fly press to shape the contour the rib for the X member as well as the curved parts of the body mount brackets. It is all TIG welded it together.

 

[Old Iron]

Good lookin mount

 

[DJ3100]

Lookin' good, show us the headers!

 

[AZ4GEMAN]

Attaching the front clip

Before I can start on the headers I need to get the body mounted and the front clip attached to determine where the pipes need to go. Clearance is going to be critical.

This beast is like a 3D jigsaw puzzle. It was disassembled and resting on 2 trailers when I bought it. Part of the challenge is figuring out how it all goes back together. The front fenders do not bolt directly to the body. Instead they attach to the inner fender panels which in turn are located by the core support and 2 rubber mounting brackets on the cowl. Those two critical cowl brackets are missing.

Spent most of Saturday afternoon fabricating the missing brackets. They were hot formed over a piece of 2-1/2 square tube and came out pretty nice. (see photo)

Unfortunately, they did not quite locate the fenders properly so I made another try today. Success at last. [cl

So far everything seems to line up with the paint and patina. The passenger side is attached and fits well. Tomorrow the driver's side. Once both are in place that will establish the location of the X- member for the core support.

Now that the fender is in place it looks to me like the wheel is too far forward in the opening. This view shows the truck in the slammed position with about 4" ground clearance at the bottom of the fender. Drive height will be about 9" with the bags inflated.

It is not to late to move the axle back a couple of inches. Looks like everything will clear and the geometry won't change. Relocating the axle will affect the position of the steering box.

What do you all think??

 

[DJ3100]

When you look at the top of the arch it looks like the wheel is directly under the highest point - pretty much in the center. The wheel well looks a little elongated toward the rear (is it a scroll?), so being centered front to back at the bottom of the opening may not be the answer. Think Indian fenders. OR the AD Chevy fenders.

When you turn the wheel it moves in the opening so it's never centered anyway.

I think it looks good as is, but in the photo it also looks like it might want to move back an inch or two.

One thing I figured out with the '53 is that we don't have the frame flex they built into those old trucks. I would be temped to ditch the rubber fender mounts.

 

[AZ4GEMAN]

Front axle position

I made a quick cardboard template and found that the fender opening is basically symetrical. The leading edge is obviously shorter, making it appear visually different, but arc is the same front and rear.

As pictured, the wheel centerline is roughly 2 inches forward of the apogee of the fender arc. When the truck is lifted to the driving position the space behind the tire becomes even more exaggerated.

A couple of guys stopped by for a look. They didn't see the "problem" until I pointed it out. It would sure be easy to weld up everything as is and keep moving ahead.

Maybe I'm being too picky.

Opinions anyone?

(the photo is slightly distorted due to the wide angle lens, but you probably get the idea. I'll shoot it again with a normal lens)

 

[AZ4GEMAN]

Front axle position, maybe this photo will help

There is still some lens distortion but maybe this will illustrate the issue.
Move the axle C/L back to the fender arc apogee and it looks better (to me).

Imagine at drive height, approximately 5" higher.