I would like opinions on this please

[YBeNormal]

I know that there are law enforcement on here along with everyone else .

Do y'all think this was a justified killing?


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fxMgREVkdr8

 

[CR55]

Looks like a bit of excessive force while handcuffing him. .2 cops should have been able to subdue him without shooting! Had the same thing here a while back...tasered a man then shot him before he got up. No charges!

 

[Torch]

hard telling from just the video. cant hear what's being said... no idea if the guy is a violent criminal, gangbanger or not.
if an ordinary person is just scared or drunk and running away that's one thing but if a dangerous violent offender is and there are warrants out for the guy or he's escaped or what not..then there is some degree of desperation the guy will exhibit to escape his consequences and you can't let him get away to hurt more people.

You shouldn't kill a guy because he hit you, it's not only chicken stuff it's un American.
But then again, some people need killing.

Government get's it's power to govern from the authority of the people.

Since the power government has been granted comes from the people as they exercise their liberty corporately to secure their liberties..
Any power granted government can only be what it is lawful for an individual to do in the absence of government.

If it is unlawful for people to protect themselves with deadly force against an attacker then it is also unlawful for an agent of the people to do the same.
If it is unlawful for people to arrest someone in the act of a crime and detain them and bring them to court to answer a charge... then it is also unlawful for an agency of those people to do the same.

The officer's power of arrest is citizen's arrest. His power to use deadly force to protect property, prevent crime, and to arrest... comes from the lawful Individuals right and duty to protect property, prevent crime, and arrest the accused.
If it isn't lawful for an individual to murder someone for refusing to comply then it cannot be lawful for an official to murder a person for refusing to comply

It was definitely not lawful for this guy to assault the officers or flee from arrest.
That would leave the officers justified in using some kind of force.
It does not appear she had a taser.
It's hard to say from just a video where the guy was shot off screen if the officer was justified in killing him or if she was just being lazy or unprofessional.
Or killing someone that is a know violent predator
If your "in fear" then your not in control of the situation or yourself...
you are under the control of your emotions and being out of control is not being professional
and there are very few legitimate excuses for shooting an unarmed man in the back
being angry and being afraid are not valid excuses to murder.

There just isn't any way of telling from this video you posted. It isn't the whole truth.

 

[21willys]

Not enough info as stated.

We don't know what the man had or what he was doing. I've had a cop body slam me into the trunk of car because I had a "weapon". The weapon was a 20oz pop bottle. This was back when they first came out. Was I a threat? No, but all the cop needs is a excuse/reason to use such force.

 

[donsrods]

That video wouldn't come up for me when I clicked on your link, but I found it in YouTube, here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxMgREVkdr8

Tough call, but my thinking is that anyone who simply does not act properly when a police officer is questioning or cuffing them gives up certain reasons to complain later when things get rough. I've been stopped by the police for traffic stops and questioned, and I always behaved myself and was respectful. How many times has the situation been reversed, where the cops were shot or beat up by someone they stopped, and there is hardly ever any public outcry when that happens.

There are some people out there who don't play by the same rules you and I do, or think like we do. They think nothing of shooting someone, even a cop, who was simply doing his or her job. I think when that guy broke loose and started beating on the two officers, one of whom was a woman, they police had the right to take back control of the situation, and they did.

I say the guy got what he asked for, and I have no sympathy for him. Here is a video of what these guys face when they approach a car, especially at night:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f7ruAqa8L4

Don

 

[ssimpala]

I've got to respect my friend Don's opinion. He actually lives in that ****hole we all call Florida...but, MAN, that was sure handled poorly from what little bit we can see, huh?

 

[YBeNormal]

Ok this was a family friends son. So it's a little closer to home for us.

Of course hardly any info has been released in the months since it happened and it would be great if the sound was released also but here is what I know.

He was 21 and walking down the road the call placed was a disturbance call.
He had no weapons (which he is hardly dressed so that is noticeable)

In the video he was doing as instructed then the second officer slams him and then it went south from there.

I have alot of respect for law enforcement and what they do but I dont believe she was in the right to use deadly force. Also watch her reaction after she fires her weapon her body language completely changes.

I don't know if it is poor training or what it might be, maybe she was trying to scare him and her gun went off. We will never know that answer.

 

[Sam_Fear]

If he would have got up and ran, that's one thing, but he went at the cops after he got loose. That changes everything. Also, it looks like there could be something in his left hand as he backs away right before he is shot. He is off screen when shot so we can't see if he was going to lunge again. And in that brief time, how are either officer to know if he had or hadn't gotten the others weapon?

 

[ssimpala]

Sorry for your loss, but, like everyone's said...just not enough info here to make a real judgment. I'll bet that they get additional training in how to handcuff and restrain.

 

[ssimpala]

I just watched that video a couple more times. You're right...she sure changed after the shot. Maybe it was an accident...or maybe not...we'll probably never know.

 

[21willys]

I noticed her body language change also. I think she scared herself and if that's the case she don't need to be a officer.

 

[donsrods]

Like the others said, David, sorry for the loss of someone you knew. But he would still be alive if he didn't break free and start beating on the cops. I think we have to put ourselves into the head of the cops and ask what we would have done. I know what I would have done if I were the man who got killed, I would have complied and probably went home that night.

We had a cop killed here, and I had actually met him one time. Nice young guy with a Wife and 2 small kids. A guy was beating up his GF and the cop walked up to break it up and the guy shot him in the head and killed him. The cop didn't even have a chance to do anything, it was just cold blooded murder.

I'm sure there are police who take it over the line sometimes, but I can't imagine having a job where when I kissed my Wife goodbye in the morning and never knew for sure I was going to come back home that night. We ask the police to take care of a segment of society that most of us don't want to know the existance of, and they are the first people we call when we need help. I'm sure that punch to the head the lady cop took in that video rocked her for a while and clouded her thinking a little.

Don

 

[Gastrick]

It's tough to call from a short video without knowing all the facts but I can tell you this, it's hard to convey what it's REALLY like out there when someone decides to face off with you. I've been in my share of fights in the middle of the night with dangerous people. I'm not real fond of the initial tactics displayed by either officer in that video, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a justified shooting.

It's easy for everyone to say that you would just easily subdue the suspect if it were you, but when you are face to face with it, it becomes serious and if you don't win, you don't go home alive. That changes everything. I've been there.


This next opinion probably won't be very popular in this day and age, but I don't feel that there is a real place in law enforcement for females. Despite what is portrayed in all of the television police shows, in a LARGE percentage if instances in the real world, they can't handle themselves in a fight with a determined male violent criminal. Nothing against women...it's just a fact. Thry react differently and are at a physical disadvantage in these instances. Thus courts have upheld that they are justified in using a higher degree of force than a male in the same situation.

Additionally, as a law enforcement officer, if you feel that a suspect is attempting to obtain your firearm, or is attempting to render you unconcious, you are absolutely justified in using deadly force. You are also not obligated to use your hands just because the suspect is attacking you with his hands. He could be a trained MMA fighter for all you know. It has already been stated, but this suspect made a fatal mistake by squaring off with the officers instead of fleeing.

These incidents usually take place in a matter of seconds when split second decisions must be made. Hesitation can get you killed. We have the luxury of studying the incident on tape over and over again without being under the stress of the instant.

 

[EnglishBob]

Unless we've been in a situation like that none of us could guess what we'd do.
Any loss of life is a shame but I'd have probably have done the same.

 

[billy]

that guy got loose
hit a cop
and was coming back for more
i would have shot him.

 

[Torch]

I see what appears to be him being told to lie down and probably put his hands behind his back.
he doesn't lie all the way down and has his left shoulder up he's resisting and looks to be concealing something
I don't see where the second officer is slamming him
What I do see is the second officer taking control of him by the neck and forcing his shoulder down then proceeding to attempt to cuff him.
I don't see the officers wrenching on the guys arms outside of range of motion or beyond what is necessary to apply cuffs.
The fact the guy got loose like he did is evident the officers were not violently restraining the guy and were being rather gentle

The side of the road is no place to argue with the police.
In most cases they only want to know who you are and what you are doing.
It is common these days to detain a person with cuffs as "protective custody" while conducting their investigation then they release the person if there is no cause to arrest him.

Chances are if this kid had no warrants was not a suspect in a crime and would have followed orders and allowed the police to identify he was not a public threat they might have even given him a ride home.

It’s a sad and disturbing thing to have a loved one killed and it's a sad and disturbing thing to have to kill someone no matter how bad a person they are.

Yes sir, No sir and do not fight with the police on the side of the road..the place to fight with police is administratively and in the courts>
The place to fight with anyone (beyond a verbal discussion) is in arbitration

If you cannot agree to live in a civilized world where disputes are arbitrated then you will be forced to live in a civilized world where disputes are resolved with death.
Civilization is civilization because men are superior to animals and the most efficient killer.
Choosing to be an animal isn't going to liberate you from civilization or from the natural consequences of your actions.

When you have someone working for a contractor you have hired it isn't your place to fight with them.
If you owned property and were having an office complex constructed... even you as the owner would be required to obey the job site rules of the contractors when you showed up to inspect and review with them...
If you threw an operator out of your crane and began to operate it dangerously... security might even shoot you out of it.

There is an orderly process to resolve all disputes... you would take it up with your contractor..and he would take it up with the problem employees 'direct report' ie supervisor and resolve the problem and get back to you
Why would it be any different if the contractor you hired is a police department?

If this kid would act like this with police what's he like with other people?
Why hasn't he been taught how to act? How to be civilized? It could have saved his life

Back in the day if you didn't know how to act in public the other gentleman demanded satisfaction and gave you a chance to defend yourself at 50 paces before he killed you.
People grew up learning how to act in public so they wouldn't get shot dead.
Nowadays with guns not so prevalent a punk gets a little streets in him and thinks he's tough and he thinks that's the way he gets around in the world.
If you want to fight, take it to the ring.
"I'm going to (insert violent threat)" deserves 2 responses...No, then a bullet... swift and humane.

Trayvon should have been shot the moment he was told to stay back or back off and didn't.
Trayvon should have been taught how to act and if he was... it's his own fault he's dead.
Nobody has a right to beat anyone and nobody is obliged to take a beating.
There isn't any place in this world for people being animals.
Force a fight on someone who doesn't want to fight and he's got every right to drop you dead.
Down in Texas "He Needed Killing" is still a valid legal defense
During the LA King riots the only shops not vandalized and looted were those of the orientals who stood on their roofs with guns ready to exercise their rights.

"God made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal,"

 

[cycledog]

Had a case similar in these parts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Zehm

 

[Torch]

I'm not trying to sound brutal but that's just the way it is...

Humans are not naturally born civilized.

All of nature is brutal, civilized behavior is an un-natural artifice of man, the rules of engagement to avoid this brutality hammered out over millennia of violence.
Remove the civility and you reveal the exigent brutality of nature
This happens every time you dispense with civility, the artifice falls and you meet the animal.
One predator begets another, one act of violence begets another until the horror itself returns those to civility.

 

[GJunktionMike]

Had he ran after the point of getting lose it would be a different story, the point were he came back in for round two (knowing that they were armed) is where he went South, this removed any doubt of intent to cause bodily harm. If this was a CW case it still would be ruled a justifiable shooting. It is hard to say if the female officer had the intent to fire. But looking at her reaction to the shooting I would say her intent wasn’t to fire first, it just happened that way. This is probably the first person she has ever fired on, and no amount of training can prepare a person for this.

I could understand an argument that some would say the male officer acted in a unprofessional manor. And if I had to sit on a jury on this, I would lean to the male officer provoking the guy. But the fine line was crossed when the guy came back for seconds.

 

[Torch]

are some officer trained to attempt to escalate? or is it something they learn in combat.
I've had a couple times where I was doing nothing wrong got pulled over and was drawn on...had I made one false move I'd probably be dead.
mistaken identity
but until the officer was satisfied with his investigation every act he took was a provocation to escalate as if he was wanting it.
creepy feeling