It's a tax.

[Sam_Fear]

Just heard the SCOTUS decided Obamacare is constitutional, but is a tax. Personally I'm not happy about it. I don't have a big problem with socialized health care and I don't care what they call it. I have a problem with them mandating that I must buy into it. Further down the slope we slide.

If this is too political Tripper, I understand if you zap it. Just kinda freaks me out that the personal mandate was deemed constitutional.

 

[GJunktionMike]

[S What have we become. What realy got me, was all the reports of reps preparing urgument for three different out comes. Are we realy paying these people. But what do I know.

 

[rainman]

I'm an Obama supporter, and I like parts of the healthcare bill, BUT like Sam, I don't like the mandate!! Maybe I just don't like being told to do something!!

I do think this would have worked well if we could have had a public option!!
[S

 

[sgtpontiac]

I guess the saddest part is that we, "the people"

really no longer have much say (if any) in government....we can vote them in but they pretty much do what they want after the fact...we continue to hope for the best and are forced to be satisfied with Mediocrity. JMHO

 

[ssimpala]

Politics...I'm sure glad to be retired and out of it all.

 

[skull]

next

so what is next?

are the gov'ment cronnies gonna tell us we have to scrap our rods and buy the fuel effenicent and safer car and truck or pay a huge "tax" for the privlage of exercising our constitutional rights.

this is a slippery slope for more & more control in and of our lives

Later

 

[donsrods]

I'll put in my 2 cents before Tripper shuts it down. I like Obama, always have, and I don't think the health care thing is all that bad. Canadians have had great health care for years and in this country of plenty we have whole families who can't afford to take their kids to the Doctor for checkups or when sick.

If anyone has a better plan, I have yet to see it, and it won't work unless mandated.

Don

 

[Dr Crankenstein]

Since Don mentioned it, I'll toss a few words in.

In Canada, every citizen is entitled to medical care, period. No HMO BS, no denial for any reason. (You do have to prove your citizenship and residency by presenting a gov't issued card). Of course, no system is perfect and it does have its shortcomings, but we're happy to have it considering the alternatives. (see GJunktion's post)

Naturally, the costs are paid entirely by us, the taxpayers. We bitch and moan about taxes all the time, but when we see and hear stories about American healthcare, it shuts us up pretty quick...for a minute...then we go back to yelling at our healthy children.

All I'm trying to say here, is I hope your reform is a good thing and it benefits the American people as a whole. Universal healthcare can and does work, at least it does here.

 

[GJunktionMike]

I had deleted this but

This is just a one time rant on my part. If I offend or upset anyone I apologize and promise I will always play nice (this is something that has weighted on me for a while).

I’m among the many that can’t afford medical insurance due to a pre-existing condition. I worked for a company that had medical till the boss decided the company needed to save money. Luckily (for what it is worth) I came down sick just before the insurance ended. Because of cobra I was able to have the option of paying the premium out of my pocket. I went from paying $380.00 a month for the rest of my family (3) to $425.00 just for my self. And because the insurance company changed my policy on cobra I had to pay more out of pocket for visits and meds. Thank to all this I live on the edge of bankruptcy and fighting to stay out of foreclosure (thank god I found this site and it sparked an interest in building, with out selling and trading parts I would have already lost everything).

To add salt to the wound, when the whole healthcare bill came up, all my former boss could say is “here goes socialized medical, you think you get bad service now just wait”. Now I’m a guy that has no insurance, bad service is better than no service.

Now this is the part of the story where I just get mad writing this. My mother worked for a Doctors office. She would bring her significant other lunch every once in a while. My mother for lack of better works is highly resentful of some people. She could pick out about a dozen or so workers that where on state insurance for there families.

Here is the catch to all this, I knew there was a problem with these guys for years, but was always told “mind your own business”. I contracted a government funded remodel. When it came time to start the job I called everyone in to start the paperwork to work on this job. I pointed out that everyone was going to have to have fingerprinting and background checks done, I lost about 15 employees the next day (the same ones my mother pointed out).

My long winded point, I’m for healthcare reform. Reform it with out punishing the wrong people.

 

[donsrods]

Not to fuel any us vs them arguments here, and not throwing a stone at any particular group of people, but here is a true story.

I worked with a young guy named Jose who was an illegal from Mexico. We all liked Jose a lot and he was a good worker. He had free health insurance from our company on himself and was eligible to purchase additional coverage for his wife and 3 daughters on the same plan, but he elected not to. The reason was, the Government was paying for their coverage so he saw no reason to pay for it himself !

How the h*** does that work ? His kids got shots for school for 25 cents, and free checkups and health care, but if I had small kids and wanted insurance I would have had to add them on to my policy and pay extra.

There is something wrong with a system like that, where Americans can't go to the Dr when sick and have to tough it out, but people who are not here legally can get it. Since I retired I am on Medicare and haven't used it yet, but from what I hear it sucks.

THAT is why I want to see some sort of reform, anything is better than what we have now.

Don

 

[Torch]

Well they lied and obfuscated...
They say the mandate is constitutional because it's a tax but it's an illegal tax. the court did not address the legality of the tax.

The protection of law applies (must apply equally) to individuals
Individuals are free and above the rule of law
The rule of law regulates government.

*When a person accepts license to engage in an outlawed activity
or accepts public office
or is convicted of a crime
Then they enter under the rule of law but only as far as what is legislated as necessary regarding the exercise of license, performance in office, or execution of sentence for the discharge of the crime convicted.

*After one surrenders or forfeits license
Quits or is removed from office
Or his conviction is discharged by the due process of execution of sentence
Then he is no longer under the rule of law and is once again fully under the equal protection of the law.

The constitution does not give rights, it charters the framework for government and regulates the offices created.
God gives rights...to man, not to kings, not to governments, not to machines or hives or herds or colonies but to men, individual men created in his image.

The constitution and any law created under it is, the law of the land.
it is not the law upon man
man is free and not under the law except by choice
law of the land applies to the land
And what activities are forbidden to occur in the land
This does mot mean it is supreme
The constitution is still subject to individual sovereignty and common law from which it is created
And government is still subject to the constitution
Free men are not subject to the constitution.
Free men are not bound to the land
As people are not bound to the land, and the law is the law of the land and the protection of the law is required by the constitution to be equal protection
Then the protections in the constitution apply to ALL PERSONS within the jurisdiction of the law.
Not just to citizens
and not just to officials.
The flag does not follow
The protection of the law and the rule of law cannot exceed it's jurisdiction except by treaty with the other jurisdiction under who's law the freeman is under when outside his country.
The law does not otherwise extend beyond our borders
The law does not rise above the land and bear upon the bodies of the free and lawful inhabitants of the land
It is restricted to the land.

*As such freemen are not taxed. their activities and property can be taxed but a person cannot be directly taxed because he is above the rule of law.
*As such the national government and the state governments
cannot tax a thing that does not exist
or a thing that has not happened
or anything that has happened beyond or exceeding it's jurisdiction.

fact

 

[GJunktionMike]

Not to fan this

The crappy part about the insurance through my old job was, we were told a month in advance that the medical was being dropped. Most of us stated that we would be willing to pay our own because the company got better coverage at a lower rate. For $500.00 I still could have my family covered and would have less out of pocket. But with out it going thru the company the whole family would have been almost $800.00 and triple out of pocket at the Doc's.

 

[patrat]

Tax? Maybe for some

The mandate can indeed be characterized as a tax, as the Court found. But it is not a massive tax hike on the middle class, much less the biggest tax hike in American history. The tax imposed by the individual mandate amounts to either $695 or 2.5 percent of household income for those who don’t have insurance and can afford to buy it. By comparison, the payroll tax cut extension Republicans repeatedly blocked earlier this year would have added 3.1 percentage points to the tax and cost the average family $1,500 a year.

The mandate, meanwhile, would hit a small amount of Americans — somewhere between 2 and 5 percent — according to a study from the Urban Institute. The number could be even lower depending on the law’s success: in Massachusetts, the only state with an insurance mandate, less than 1 percent of the state’s residents paid the penalty in 2009.


http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/06/28/508062/fact-check-mandate-tax-hike/

 

[eyesore]

I worked with a young guy named Jose who was an illegal from Mexico. We all liked Jose a lot and he was a good worker. He had free health insurance from our company on himself and was eligible to purchase additional coverage for his wife and 3 daughters on the same plan, but he elected not to. The reason was, the Government was paying for their coverage so he saw no reason to pay for it himself !

Tax hike smacks hike! There's way too many people gaming the health system, not just illegals, and that runs the cost up for everyone else! I lost my heath ins because they just kept raising it until there was no way I could afford it anymore. It's just like car insurance, they make everybody have car insurance for a reason and we all agree on that or maybe you don't remember how that all played out back in the day. I would love to have health insurance again and actually be able to afford it again! I hate all politicians and blame all those crooked b******s for our country going down the tubes like it has!

ISore

 

[Tripper]

Okey doak... let's move on!