leaf spring mount for suicide suspension?

[meteorman]

parallel quarter elliptical?

I'm considering using my old original springs, they're 3" wide and like 33" long after I cut them. I would buy 4 big ubolts to hold it together. 3/4" stock, 4" wide because of the bracket, and 10" long. will this work? if I run a radius rod, without shocks.??[S

 

[sgtpontiac]

I'm lost......

I'm considering using my old original springs, they're 3" wide and like 33" long after I cut them. I would buy 4 big ubolts to hold it together. 3/4" stock, 4" wide because of the bracket, and 10" long. will this work? if I run a radius rod, without shocks.??[S

not sure how that's gonna work out..... without shocks what will dampen the movement? I will bow to the masters of the group on this one..... Sorry...[S

 

[meteorman]

panhard bar or radius rods?

another question. if attach the quarter elliptical spring to the top of the axle, do I just need a panhard (or whatever it would be called?) bar attached to the frame underneath? or do I need a radius rod to keep the axle from rotating?
I'm looking at 48 fire truck build by truckster and it looks like what I want. can't tell if it's just a panhard bar underneath. I like his big bat wing or boomerang or whatever it's called. maybe I'll post a question on his build page. is that rude?

 

[sgtpontiac]

check out the building bucket t up north thread...

take a look at his front end set up... isn't so far off from your first design... just a bit more stable looking.... he has his spring mounted similar to your design with the radius rods on both sides keeping it stable and maintaining caster angles.... I think this is what you originally had in mind, didn't you?

 

[Sam_Fear]

The potential problem I see with that set up is that your caster will change as the axle travels through it's arc.

maybe I'll post a question on his build page. is that rude?

No it's perfectly acceptable. Who doesn't like answering questions about their rod?

 

[meteorman]

A.D.D. builder change of plans

take a look at his front end set up... isn't so far off from your first design... just a bit more stable looking.... he has his spring mounted similar to your design with the radius rods on both sides keeping it stable and maintaining caster angles.... I think this is what you originally had in mind, didn't you?

this is what I was going for originally, except I was going with spring over the axle instead of behind like the pic. I had already ordered parts from speedway, they came today, and I am strongly leaning to the quarter elliptical design. I like the idea of using the springs I have, they are really heavy duty. and the height will be right where I want it without having to build a bunch of frame up front.

 

[Bonehead]

In the first picture of your Q.E. front, you will have to either move it out more or cut off some frame. The spring end, or main leaf is resting on the frame. It needs to be able to move up and down. You will need hairpins, or radius arms to locate the axle. As far as a panhard bar goes, it will depend on your steering. If you use a vega box with cross steer, yes, you need one. And even with a pitman arm going forward you may still need a panhard bar, depending on how tight everything is. Shocks will probably be needed as well. Without them your front end will bounce after you hit a bump, and it will make the steering difficult until it settles down. I am looking for a picture for you.

 

[Bonehead]

This is a Zipper motors car with Quarter eliptical suspension all the way around. You can see the spring is quite short at the bottom, and the four link bars, but that could be hairpins or radius arms. The shocks are old school, but could be modern style.

 

[Sam_Fear]

The potential problem I see with that set up is that your caster will change as the axle travels through it's arc.

Ignore that^^^ I totally misread what you are doing.

With that heavy of a spring, I'd guess you'd want as much of it able to flex as possible.

 

[King Herald]

another question. if attach the quarter elliptical spring to the top of the axle, do I just need a panhard (or whatever it would be called?) bar attached to the frame underneath? or do I need a radius rod to keep the axle from rotating?
I'm looking at 48 fire truck build by truckster and it looks like what I want. can't tell if it's just a panhard bar underneath. I like his big bat wing or boomerang or whatever it's called. maybe I'll post a question on his build page. is that rude?

If your quarter elliptic spring is mounted to the top of the axle, via a bushing, you will definitely need a radius rod to stop it revolving for and aft. Otherwise there is nothing to hold it in line.

It needs connecting correctly, either with a moving bush to stop binding, or if you mount the radius rod solidly to the axle, you'll need shackles between your springs and axle, to stop binding as they all move through different radii.

You can set it up like a four bar, where both the spring and radius rod work in unison.

Or you can have the radius rod doing the controlling, and the spring just doing the springing.

You won't need a Panhard rod as the springs are stuff enough to stop sideways movement.

Do a search for 'quarter elliptic' on this and other rod forums, read all you can, get your head firmly round all that is involved.

 

[meteorman]

clarity?

I'm getting more and more confused. I am searching through the threads for ideas on how to build the front end. I think I get it, then I get more feedback that makes me wonder if I do afterall. I appreciate it, but I need to move forward, ugh. here is a picture of what I am wanting to build.
one issue I have is terminology.
what is a panhard bar? does that run transverse to the frame or parallel to the frame?
is a radius rod the same as a wishbone? do all radius rods attach at two points to the axle?

What is it called when a single bar runs from the bottom of a batwing to the bottom of the frame like on 48 fire truck roadster. I really like this setup and I've already got the templates for my batwings, so I want to pull the trigger. But I want to do this one time only.
PIC IS FROM 48 FIRE TRUCK ROADSTER

 

[Jimmy Wallbanger]

now im not a pro and this is my first time messing with straight axles but this is how i did mine with a praralell spring axle. the brackets are on ebay and I got min fron noxious customs

 

[King Herald]

I'm getting more and more confused. I am searching through the threads for ideas on how to build the front end. I think I get it, then I get more feedback that makes me wonder if I do afterall. I appreciate it, but I need to move forward, ugh. here is a picture of what I am wanting to build.
one issue I have is terminology.
what is a panhard bar? does that run transverse to the frame or parallel to the frame?
is a radius rod the same as a wishbone? do all radius rods attach at two points to the axle?

What is it called when a single bar runs from the bottom of a batwing to the bottom of the frame like on 48 fire truck roadster. I really like this setup and I've already got the templates for my batwings, so I want to pull the trigger. But I want to do this one time only.
PIC IS FROM 48 FIRE TRUCK ROADSTER

The pic in your post shows the leaf spring as an active part of the axle location. The bar at the bottom is what I would call a radius rod. it is the lower part of the axle location. It is free to pivot at both ends.

A Panhard rod is a bar that locates across the chassis,mounted to the axle one end, and the chassis the other end. It is to stop the axle moving sideways.

With quarter elliptics you don't need one, as the springs are stiff enough to stop the axle moving sideways. In fact a Panhard rod moves in a slight radius, so it would actually bind up the springs a bit.

 

[meteorman]

thanks, moving forward

thanks King Herald. I am ordering the ubolts and making the batwings. (and returning my Speedway order) moving forward. Thanks to 48 Fire Truck Roadster for inspiration.

 

[meteorman]

settled

here's what I settled on, if anyone is working on a similar situation.
I ordered radius rods from speedway and fabricated batwings and radius rod brackets/ubolt brackets to hold on the quarter elliptic springs. I used a bracket from the motorhome to hold the springs down, but I think they need a shim in them, because there's a bit of play, I'll just tack a shim in there and it should be good.
the radius rods ended up being 28.5 inches including the heim joints. 5/8" thread and holes/bolts.

 

[Ratcrazy]

What size bolts are you using to mount the spring mount to the axle? They look a little small. Sure hope they are grade 8 bolts and nuts.
The idea looks good but do use good hardware on the supension, dont slack there, your life and others depend on it. We want to be safe.
I like the build so far.

 

[meteorman]

What size bolts are you using to mount the spring mount to the axle? They look a little small. Sure hope they are grade 8 bolts and nuts.
The idea looks good but do use good hardware on the supension, dont slack there, your life and others depend on it. We want to be safe.
I like the build so far.

the four bolts holding the plate onto the axle are grade 8 1/2 inch bolts. The big one across the bracket holding the spring to the bracket is 5/8" grade 8 bolt and nuts. they were spendy. I'm hoping it's all strong enough. I don't think the four 1/2" bolts are an issue, the weight is all pushing down on the axle, the bolts are just holding it stable. the 5/8" bolt across is the biggest weak point in my opinion. I didn't know how else to do it except to run a transverse axle? if this doesn't work, that's what I'll switch to.
I'm some work and $ into this setup, so I hope i can make it work.

 

[meteorman]

by the way, love your truck Ratcrazy. I just went through your whole build today!! I love the way it turned out. great look, fun truck. [cl

 

[Paul_J]

Looking good. You are listening to advice and not afraid to make changes when you need to. I like your final plan!

 

[hudsonhotrod]

I like it so far, nice clean set up!