MIG 101 Your advice

[IronRat]

I'm considering buying a MIG wielder, my initial goal will be
body panel work and non-structral brackets & braces. I've been looking at this Eastwood MIG Welder

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXenK6UZwFY

I'd love to have the top of the line machine but the hobby money budget won't allow that.

I've found a local "hands on" hobby class. I think it's worth the investment for this skill.

I haven't talked to these folks yet as 1st I need to clear some time on the schedule at my full time & part time jobs before I sign up for the class(es).

As an experience welder what would what them to be sure I know before I start working on my car. Or, more simply put, if you were running a class for a guy like me, what would you teach me.

It would help me to know what's real world application for a Rat Rod project dealing with 60 y.o. steel vs. metallurgy theory.

Thanks
Frank

 

[42chevy]

I am no expert, I am mostly self taught. What size or thickness of steel do you want to weld? How long will you weld at a time? The welder's duty cycle will determine this. What voltage are you using? I would buy the absolute best you can afford now.

 

[kenny c]

I agree with 42 Chevy. my thoughts on buying an off brand welder are where can you get it serviced if you should have problems or warrrenty issues. the other thing to consider is consider is consumables,tips,shield cups coax for the wire to feed through, etc. you don't generaly go through a lot of this stuff but it is nice to be able to go to the welding store and get it when needed.I've owned one cheap welder and one miller and weld quality was similar on thin stuff but the cheap one wouldn't hold a candle to the miller as far as heavy stuff or for duty cycle. anther thing to consider is if you buy a lincoln welder at a home improvement store like home depot it is not the same quality as at a welding store such as airgas. If I were buying one for my first welder I would go with a miller180 with auto set. I believe they are dual voltage and can weld up to about 5/16 material in a single pass. even at that you will be surprised at how fast you will out grow it and find larger projects. I wouldn't rule out buying used, check craigslist. you should consider resale if you are buying small and you do that on craigslist also. If you buy used ask where it came from originaly. I would stay away from the home depot stuff unless it is really cheap. also you want one that can be hooked up to run argon gas as some of the cheaper ones are flux core only. sorry for being long winded, hope this helps.

 

[Dirtyrat]

I agree with KennyC, I also have a Miller180 Autoset, best purchase I have made.
Just be aware it wired from the factory with a short 50 amp plug even though it only draws around 30 amps I think... I had mine wired up with a 25' lead when I bought it, makes it more useful in the shop.

 

[IronRat]

.... What size or thickness of steel do you want to weld? How long will you weld at a time? The welder's duty cycle will determine this. What voltage are you using? ....

Mostly body pannel work on my '51 chevy & fabing up small brackets For example I need to make up brackets for a radiator & radiator over flow bottle.

Maybe 10- 15min. a session.? Can't be too sure as I have no experience as a welder so I can't really estimate actual time do each task. At best I get one day a week I can spend 4hrs on the car for any project.

I'd like to try to get by on 110V but if I need to run a 220V line I can.

 

[Bamamav]

I bought my Lincoln Handy Mig from the Sears website, they had the best prices of anybody. It's a 110 unit, gas and flux, and will handle most anything you throw at it. For real thick metal like a frame, I prefer a stick welder anyway. That's what I learned on, so I'm comfortable with it. I've even welded sheetmetal with a stick welder, it just takes time and patience, but it can be done.

 

[Dirtyrat]

I don't think you can beat a mig for all around use... If you don't want to have to buy a second machine, get a 220v Miller 180 or bigger.

 

[Sam_Fear]

If you can, get a 220v unit. If can't, plan on upgrading to one in a couple years. You need a 220 unit to safely weld frame etc. Basically, if you get a smaller welder now, get one that you will be able to easily sell later.

 

[Dirtyrat]

They also have multi voltage machines that will do both 110 and 220 just FYI!

 

[IronRat]

Guys thanks for the advice. I do prefer to buy quality the first time. I do try to buy smart too. I do get the point of buying up a level for future needs.

On the other hand I'd want to become pretty darn good before welding on a frame were the weld integrity might save or jeopardize my life. I don't see that happening for a while.

I think the wisest plan would be buy a good quality machine that will work for my present needs. If I find I need and welding work that's structural/safety in nature, I'll find a shop.

Did anyone think that Eastwood unit was worth the price?

 

[Old Iron]

Don't know about the Eastwood welder but, keep in mind that Miller now owns Hobart which is a good machine too.
When you start, work with 1/8" until you can run a nice bead then move down to 16 ga. until you can run a nice bead then etc. etc.
When welding on body panels, you will be triggering the machine like a spot welder. This is where the internal parts of a higher quality machine stand up to the constant on off triggering.
Definitely 220 volt machine. Not too many people ever take their mig to different locations so, the 110 volt is only good if you don't have or can't get access to 220 volts.

 

[IronRat]

Old Iron - Thanks for the Practical Training tip on body panels.

I don't have 220v access were I'll be working, but that's nothing I can't fix, if the 220v machine truly is that much better value.

 

[donsrods]

There is no question that buying a quality mig welder is a major hit to the wallet, but it actually is an investment. One of our welders is one my Son bought probably 8 or 9 years ago, a Miller 210. That welder has laid down miles and miles of welds in that time (I can't even begin to think how many welds it has made) and it has been FLAWLESS. The only thing that we ever replaced was the liner for the wire to pass through, and that was a cheap fix.

When you factor in the bottle and a decent self darkening helmet, plus the wire and gas, no really good welder is cheap. But if you spread that out over a bunch of years it will not be any worse than buying a so so welder and then outgrowing it and having to continually move up. A good welder will make you a better welder than you would otherwise be, and make great welds for years and years.

You might look at Cyberweld.com. We have bought the 210, a 211, a 200 Syncroweld Tig, and a plasma cutter from them and their prices were really good. Some people say Tractor Supply runs deals on welders too, so you might look there.

Don

 

[Old Iron]

^^^^^ 100%
I purchased my MillerMatic 200 twenty nine years ago for $1350.00 that's $46.56 a year. Like Don's, mine has been flawless also with just the occasional tip and liner replacement. Heck, I'm still on the original feed rollers.
I use liner lube and cup dressing religiously which helps the consumables last longer.

 

[1952B3b23]

I had an Eastwood Mig 135, i used it for about a year before having problems with it. One day it just started to weld like crap and i could not figure out what was wrong, not even the tech guys at Eastwood could tell me. I got so sick of it and since i had plans to do structural welding on my truck frame i decided to give up on it. I bought a Miller 180 auto set from Cyberweld.com and it has been flawless and there prices were good. I would totally recommend just buying a good brand right off the bat, i wish i had.

-Chris

 

[Tripper]

I like the pretty blue ones! [ddd I bought a Miller unit that is 110 & 220. It goes back & forth by changing the plug which is real easy. I use 110 for body stuff & 220 for thicker stuff. Like the other guys said, I got the biggest one I could afford & it does everything I need & I haven't had any problems so far! Also bought a Miller plasma cutter that is 110 & 220!

Don turned me on to...

http://www.cyberweld.com

They had the best price & free shipping. I went to my local Miller dealer & their price was higher so I told them Cyberweld's price & they met it! Got a great price & took it home that day!

BoB

 

[burner1]

Years ago I bought a Hobart 135. I torcher this machine and have it's entire life and yet it has served me well. I weld all thicknesses. There is one thing to remember. Use .023 wire because the machine shines with it. It struggles with penetration with .030 but is in it's groove with .023; even with heavy metal.

Here is a bucket for a backhoe I built some time back:

http://www.rc-tech.net/cars2/tractor/Bucket2.jpg

http://www.rc-tech.net/cars2/tractor/dig.jpg

http://www.rc-tech.net/cars2/tractor/tree2.jpg

Here is thin metal with the same machine:

http://www.rc-tech.net/cars2/panttransam/fb1.jpg
http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/valance/val16.jpg
http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/valance/val22.jpg

Welders have a limit on duty cycle. Using it to where the thermal cut off shuts off is way past duty cycle. I have done that many times. While I do not advocate it I have done it countless times and never had a problem.

I see welders with better machines tell me I cannot do with the 110v MIG what I do but the difference is...they never had to. Much of it is technique. These machines are quite capable!

I can't speak for other machines but I would buy this 1000x over.

http://www.rc-tech.net/cars2/cush/Build/Build23.jpg