Need help with first build

[Al B. Bach]

Hello all. I got this little model a off ebay with the hope of just finishing the wiring and plumbing on it as well as a few minor details. I talked to the guy before I got it and he told me that's all it needed. Well the car arrived here yesterday while I was at work and I got to see it last night at about 3:00 am. Even from a block away and at night I could tell something was amiss. I rode my bike through the yard and some still soft mud even though it's only 20 degrees out, cussing and complaining about not being able to get in the driveway as well as the cold. I was basically felling cold, numb, and wondering why in the hell am I riding my bike in 20 degree tempertures?! All the while knowing that tomorrow I'll get on the bike and do it again!

First thing I notice is that one headlight has been busted by the shipper (luckily it was the one that was obviously bad anyway). The body also seems to be sitting a little lower on the frame.

I get my bike up into the driveway behind it and I notice the tailights are missing. A closer inspection and I discover the body was never mounted and that the lower 4 to 6 inches of the back of the body has rolled under and crushed when they tied it down to the truck. I had not planned on channelling it because I'm not sure I know how but I guess now I'll just have to learn.

I walk around to the front of the car to look at the suspension setup and notice that the front axel is sitting at an angle towards the rear of the car. It looks like it's sitting level in the pictures on ebay. I don't know if it's supposed to be this way or if the frame got tweaked when they tied it down. The welds look okay but the shock mounts I think will have to go. There is no suspension at all in the front.

The headlights were apperently just propped into position as they are both just sitting on their mounts. I'm surprised that neither of them were lost in the 1100 mile trip here.

Now I'm still happy with it because it looks cool and alot of the hard work has been done it just still needs a little more than I had expected. My questions start with mounting the body. Does any body have a link to some good info on how to channel it and mount it down? I know this is simple for most of you but this is all new to me. The biggest problem I have is that I can't weld and I don't have a shop to work in. My brother just left today to pick up a 1960 Ford F-250 in Texas when he gets it here I hope to be able to use my uncles trailer and haul the car to a buddys house so he can teach me to weld.

The top was also pretty well beat up during shipping but I had planned on leaving it off anyway.

I'll post more pictures of it as it sits now this weekend.

 

[Bonehead]

Carl, Dude,
You are going to have to get good at metal work to get this thing turned around. Don't get to feeling down, because this will be a great learning experience for you, and you should have a lot of fun at the same time. As far as channeling, the car needed to sit lower anyway. When you get some pictures up for us, take one of the inside and the frame and we will go from there.

 

[Al B. Bach]

Unfortunately I just looked at it again and noticed the front axel was sitting worse than it was last night. I pulled the tarp from the engine only to discover the frame is cracked under the light mount. Needless to say I'm not to happy right now.

My brother also has problems with the truck he was buying. The seller just called to let him know they had a small fire in the truck. He hopes to get the fuse box replaced but I have a feeling my brother is just going to cancel the purchase. So I still don't have any way to get the car to the welder.

 

[falconvan]

I've got good and bad off of Ebay; I bought a 48 Dodge for $2200 that was supposed to be really clean and need little work. The body was so rusted out it was unuseable. Then I bought a 47 Plymouth for $200 that was supposed to be good for parts only. I planned on using it to salvage the Dodge. When I got it the frame was really clean and the body straight with minimal rust. So the builder became the parts car and vise-versa. Go figure, I guess I did alright between the two.

 

[donsrods]

I don't want to jump to conclusions here, because one picture isn't enough to make up my mind, but from the initial picture I really have some serious questions about the way the entire car is put together. The way it sits and the overall look just raise my concerns.

Please post LOTS of good pictures that we can enlarge. Take every aspect of the suspension, front and rear, the frame, engine mounting, etc. Need to take a close look at it, because what I am seeing right now frankly causes me concern.

Not saying that to be cruel, just have to be honest as you seem somewhat new to all of this. Don't want you to get hurt or worse.

Don

 

[eyesore]

it just still needs a little more than I had expected.

Al,
Welcome to the real world of old cars! You got a great start and there's plenty of help around here so don't be afraid to ask away! Good luck and I think you'
ll wind up with a nice rod!

ISore

 

[donsrods]

Yeah, please don't think I'm being critical or trying to dampen a new car owners enthusiasm. We just want to give you the very best advice we can, and we need to be totally frank and honest to do you justice.

Looking forward to the pictures.

Don

 

[Al B. Bach]

Don't worry about being critical. You guys are the experts. I have probably paid to much for it but I am still okay with it. I just keep looking at it this way, I have the start to my first rat rod!

My brother got a couple shots of it when they unloaded it. The owner of the shipping company has agreed to fix the lights because the driver hit something with it. I promise I'll get better pictures this weekend.

 

[Al B. Bach]

I just noticed the auction is still up on ebay. You might look at the photos there for now untill I can get more this weekend. It certainly looks better in the auction photos than it really is.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...219302364&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting

 

[Bonehead]

You have a lot of good parts there and a title, and that is worth alot. I see where the axle is leaning back. It sure makes me worry about the welding on the rest of the car. The hair pin set up should hold the axle in place so it looks like some things are bent or broken there.
I still think you should take on the challange of learning to weld, and whoup this project back into shape.

 

[24dodge]

Is the front axle thats on it now from a parallel leaf setup ?

 

[fiki]

those front shock mounts look too weak...

 

[donsrods]

Good, those pictures help a lot. As Bonehead said, you got a lot of parts and a title, so you didn't do real bad. Here is what I see.

1) The frame is really bad. Way too flimsy, especially in the front. That crossmember should be much fatter, and the frame tapers down too much to have any strength to it in an area that needs to be strong and ridgid. Ditto for the back part of the frame. You need to to at least do something to get a larger diameter crossmember up front.

2) Front suspension seems to be not too bad, except for the shock mounts at the top. Those are gonna bend on you the first time you hit a bump. Waaaaaay to flimsy and too tall. I could even live with the way he attached the radius rods to the axle, but the mounts on the frame end are not gusseted.

3) The headlight mounts are freakin useless. If left like they are your headlights will be bobbing around as you go down the road and will never hold tight.

4) Rear suspension is actually pretty good, except the shackles on the springs are way too long and will allow your car to rock on them when you take turns. Also, why is the car leaning to one side?

5) Motor mounts. They are solid and way too long. You need a crossmember/motor mount to span that distance and also some rubber mounts to take the vibrations.

6) Looks like the rest of the frame is pretty well braced with crossmembers from what I can see in the pictures.

7) He did a good thing with that hoop welded to the frame under the dash.

8) Body needs a lot of bracing and a proper subframe stucture before a floor is put in.

Final conclusion.........you have some areas that need beefed up and some that need re-engineered, but for $ 2600 you didn't do bad at all. You got a running engine and tranny, wheels and tires, radiator, front and rear axles, brakes, a body, steering, and best of all, A TITLE !! (to me a title is worth $500)

I would have a good welder check all the welds, and some knowledgable rodder look at the rest of it on site to see what he thinks. The height of the rear bothers me a little, I would have Z'd the frame in the back to drop it down, but it is what it is now. Also make sure his homemade radius rods and steering draglink is done correctly.

It isn't as bleak as what I saw in the first pictures, just a few areas to address before it hits the road.

Don

 

[dmw56]

I think Don about covered it. It's a good starting point and will be valuable learning experience. And further more, $2600 was a pretty good buy even in the condition its in. I've seen just bodies go for that much.

By the way, is that your Indian? Sweet bike!

 

[Unkl Ian]

Rule #1: Never buy a car over the phone.

If it's too late to send this thing back,I would suggest you
take the body off(shouldn't take long),and put it in a safe place.
That chassis is going to need some serious work.

Plan on buying a decent welder,and learning how to use it.

 

[grouchy]

Not bad for $2600, Lots of work to be done. Cool little motor! Do your home work and build it safe!!...grouchy

 

[dmw56]

Rule #1: Never buy a car over the phone.

If it's too late to send this thing back,I would suggest you
take the body off(shouldn't take long),and put it in a safe place.
That chassis is going to need some serious work.

It was bought on Ebay. You buy it, its yours! You have to ask a lot of questions and then ask some more. Ask for more pictures and if at all possible go look at or have someome else look at it. I'd probably ask someone on this forum if they were close by to take a look at. I'd have no problem doing that for someone.

I've had good luck and not so good buying vehicles on Ebay. Just remember buyer beware!

 

[Al B. Bach]

Good, those pictures help a lot. As Bonehead said, you got a lot of parts and a title, so you didn't do real bad. Here is what I see.

1) The frame is really bad. Way too flimsy, especially in the front. That crossmember should be much fatter, and the frame tapers down too much to have any strength to it in an area that needs to be strong and ridgid. Ditto for the back part of the frame. You need to to at least do something to get a larger diameter crossmember up front.

2) Front suspension seems to be not too bad, except for the shock mounts at the top. Those are gonna bend on you the first time you hit a bump. Waaaaaay to flimsy and too tall. I could even live with the way he attached the radius rods to the axle, but the mounts on the frame end are not gusseted.

3) The headlight mounts are freakin useless. If left like they are your headlights will be bobbing around as you go down the road and will never hold tight.

4) Rear suspension is actually pretty good, except the shackles on the springs are way too long and will allow your car to rock on them when you take turns. Also, why is the car leaning to one side?

5) Motor mounts. They are solid and way too long. You need a crossmember/motor mount to span that distance and also some rubber mounts to take the vibrations.

6) Looks like the rest of the frame is pretty well braced with crossmembers from what I can see in the pictures.

7) He did a good thing with that hoop welded to the frame under the dash.

8) Body needs a lot of bracing and a proper subframe stucture before a floor is put in.

Final conclusion.........you have some areas that need beefed up and some that need re-engineered, but for $ 2600 you didn't do bad at all. You got a running engine and tranny, wheels and tires, radiator, front and rear axles, brakes, a body, steering, and best of all, A TITLE !! (to me a title is worth $500)

I would have a good welder check all the welds, and some knowledgable rodder look at the rest of it on site to see what he thinks. The height of the rear bothers me a little, I would have Z'd the frame in the back to drop it down, but it is what it is now. Also make sure his homemade radius rods and steering draglink is done correctly.

It isn't as bleak as what I saw in the first pictures, just a few areas to address before it hits the road.

Don

Thanks for the guidance Don. A few questions now.

1. The frame, I had planned on a cage in it. I was thinking that with it sitting kind of high any way it might be cool to build it in the style of an old race car. Do you think with some bracing as well as the cage it would stiffen the frame up enough?

2. Shock mounts, I agree completely. They look good but are pretty useless.

3. Headlights, again I agree. Not only are they flimsy but they sure don't look good either.

4. The car is leaning because the body is sitting lower on that side and because the frame broken in front.

5. Are the rubber mounts a must? They only reason I ask is because I really like the look of it now.


I am going to try to get a guy I know at work to let me use his shop and help me with the welding. He use to build top fuel rail cars so I know his welds will be good.

If I can't get his help is there any body in the central Kansas area that could help me out here? I can get a truck and trailer to haul it just about anywhere in Kansas.

 

[Al B. Bach]

I think Don about covered it. It's a good starting point and will be valuable learning experience. And further more, $2600 was a pretty good buy even in the condition its in. I've seen just bodies go for that much.

By the way, is that your Indian? Sweet bike!

That bikes my brothers. It's actually a 2000 Kawasaki Drifter. It's a real cool bike and alot better looking than mine but I'm working on that. When those shots were taken I was at work with my bike.

 

[donsrods]

Carl, the back part of the frame looks like he used some 2 x 3 or 2 x 4 tubing which is good if that is the case. The part that concerns me and that I couldn't see well in the pictures is the very front of the frame and the front crossmember. For some reason he shrunk it down there and it looks too weak to me. The fact you say it broke there confirms that. Please shoot some very detailed pictures of the entire front frame section so we can see better, then we can say more.

The cage will help, but it won't address that particular area.

Some guys are running solid motor mounts, but engines shake and factory mounts are designed to let them do that and not impart those vibrations to the rest of the car. I think 6 cylinder engines have a tendancy to shake more than a v8 also because of the crank design.........I could be wrong on that, but that is my recollection. Not only will it vibrate you when going down the road, but it will eventually stress and crack the solid mounts, especially being as long and unsupported as they are. You might get it running and see how it looks to you, it might end up being ok, but you won't know till you fire it up.

Sounds like you are getting a plan going and that is cool.

Don