S10 chassis and other beginner questions

[jmattsen]

Ive fallen in love with rattrucks and now that i have a new job in construction i actually kindof have an excuse to buy one and some extra money to throw at it.

My plan is instead of buying the truck first i am going to buy an s10 and hopfully drop some sort of ls engine in it before i track down the perfect body and bed.

Some questions i have...

1. Are all s10 frames the same? I imagine a crewcab would be ideal since its a little shorter right? Also 1st gen vs 2nd gen and blazer vs s10, whats the ideal starting point?

2. Idealy i would want to keep the 4x4, is that possible or would it be more hassle than its worth? Keep in mind i want an ls swap also

3. The v6 and the 4 cylinder have different suspension right? So the v6 would be ideal since im throwing a heavier engine and stuff on it right?

4. I have a boner for a dually rear end also, would it be a matter of just throwing on some hubs or is a whole rear end nessacary?

5. Money is likely run out before i get to this point but how cheap can air suspension be done for? I want it to be pretty low but at the same time its gonna be some what of a work truck and i dont wanna be throwing sparks everytime i have a motorcycle in the bed.

Sorry for the bombardment of questions but trying to find a ls dualy 4x4 on an s10 frame is pretty specific, thanks for the help

 

[26Troadster]

ok i think your over thinking. if you go buy a s10 and v8 it chances are you will be having to much fun driving it to tear it down. you also may have to relocate the motor so a two wheel drive is better for a swap. the 4x4 can be done but it could turn into a lot of work before your done. some of these frame swaps can be a headache. why not find what you want to build and go from there? you can always upgrade the older stuff to newer stuff real easy. as for your dual rear you can fit them to the older frames with little work. a 3/4 ton rear can be setup with dual wheels if wanted as well. something else is the s dime has a narrow track.

 

[jmattsen]

I have a m3 swapped 525i and a cbr600 to keep me occupied while im building this. I have found multiple trucks on craigslist that would be the perfect cab for this, specifically a 49 gmc in a rusted out baby blue. I cant have a broken down truck sitting around for too long since it will be at my moms house, my appartment allready hates me for having 2 projects leaking oil in the parking garage.

After browsing craigslist i decided that the s10 i get will be ****ed up. Theres so many for like $200-$600 that are perfectly fine except for a blown tranny. I can part it out for more than that.

And if i buy a whole wrecked truck or van for the donor ls engine i can probobley make my money back on that also.


Il tldr my questions. Whats the ideal frame to start with, 1st gen or 2nd gen, crew cab or extended cab, 4c or v6, blaser or s10?


And is keeping 4x4 more trouble than its worth if im also swapping in a ls engine and doing all these other things.

Another thing i just thought of... 4x4 wouldnt even ****ing work if i have massive duallys on the rear would it. The back tires would be pushing the smaller front tires.

 

[sawzall]

I think you should take the time and go thru the build section here at RRR and really think what it is you want to build, Then if you have questions you can ask someone that has solved your problem. Good luck

 

[Old Iron]

1. No, all S10 frames are not the same.
1st or second gen doesn't matter. If you do a bobber truck, what you want is an extended cab short or long bed.
This way you can shorten the frame, if need be, instead of lengthening it.
4c and 6c doesn't really matter that much. The front ride height will be a minimal difference.
If you 4x4 it, it would be best to get the ls out of a 4x4 so you get engine, tranny and transfer case all together. Don't forget the computer too.
4x4 tires will have to be the same height front and back too.
The track width on a 4x4 S10 and Blazer are 3" wider than the 2 wheel drive rear S10.

 

[Edge of sanity]

Since we are talking about s10s here I have a question.
Has anyone tried to move the steering behind the front wheels?
Box, idler arm, and tie rod ends, the whole nine yards changing the
spindles from side to side making a rear steer chassis?
I have a 4x4 frame and regular frame. It looks like the 4x4
would workout easier. But a notch could be cut in the 2 wheeler
for clearance.
A rack might work better.
Remember I am on the Edge.

 

[Yankee Transplant]

Since we are talking about s10s here I have a question.
Has anyone tried to move the steering behind the front wheels?
Box, idler arm, and tie rod ends, the whole nine yards changing the
spindles from side to side making a rear steer chassis?
I have a 4x4 frame and regular frame. It looks like the 4x4
would workout easier. But a notch could be cut in the 2 wheeler
for clearance.
A rack might work better.
Remember I am on the Edge.

if you move it behind the wheels it will turn the opposite way wont it ?? if you use a rack it needs to be out of a malibu or something with the rack is already in the rear ..

 

[Edge of sanity]

You would have to dig a hole in the frame for the box and mount the idler
the same as in front.
You would only want to do something like that if you were setting
the engine way back.
This would let you remove more of the frame in front so as to have wheels
sticking forward. You would have to move the bar to.

Might be more trouble than worth except with the rack

 

[Bamamav]

If you change a front steer to a rear steer you run the risk of screwing up the Ackerman designed into the front suspension. If you don't know what Ackerman is, google it, there are some good sites that explain it better than I can.

 

[26Troadster]

bama hit it on the head. i have seen straight axles turned backward for lite cars like t buckets but would never do it on anything i own. it changes the steering up a lot.

 

[Edge of sanity]

Just turning the axle around would do that.

The S10 does the angle with the upper control arm mounting.
If the upper control arm was mounted straight or at a 90 degree
angle to the lower suspension the spindle would turn without a
tilt out towards the back on one side and a tilt in on the other side.

The changing of the straight axle spindles side to side instead of
swinging the whole axle around would be better.
Might be angle in some spindles that might require a tilt in axle mounting.
On a lot of older straight axles the steering arm bolted to the spindle if
I am not mistaken. Simpler change.



Bumping the caster higher on any large setback of weight and distance
from the front steering assembly, independent type would make a better
driving car.

 

[Edge of sanity]

if you move it behind the wheels it will turn the opposite way wont it ?? if you use a rack it needs to be out of a malibu or something with the rack is already in the rear ..

Had to think . Boy my head is hurting.
Early Camaro or Nova gear box. The gear in the box must be opposite ground
to turn right when turning right when behind the suspension.
Don't have to dig a hole in frame!
Other boxes might work.

 

[Yankee Transplant]

I think mine is from a truck its power steering on a strait axle and its behind the axle .. (not) sure thats what it is from either ,, I bought this truck already this way. the arm swings right from the rear of the box to turn left .. a rack from a ford ranger is in front of the axles so it wont work a chevy malibu is located in the rear of the axles .. but a rack may run into clearance problems on the engine JMO

 

[Dr Crankenstein]

Since we are talking about s10s here I have a question.
Has anyone tried to move the steering behind the front wheels?
Box, idler arm, and tie rod ends, the whole nine yards changing the
spindles from side to side making a rear steer chassis?

If you swap spindles side for side, the brake calipers move to the front.

.

 

[26Troadster]

the ackerman angle is made in the spindle and it lets the inside wheel turn tighter when you turn. the best way to describe it it when you turn the wheels to turn a circle the inside wheel has to turn more then the outside wheel so when you turn the wheels don't slip. go out to your car/truck and have someone turn the wheels and watch them. if you swap the spindles on a straight axle you haven't done anything as most don't have a front or back till the spindles are mounted.

 

[Edge of sanity]

the ackerman angle is made in the spindle and it lets the inside wheel turn tighter when you turn. the best way to describe it it when you turn the wheels to turn a circle the inside wheel has to turn more then the outside wheel so when you turn the wheels don't slip. go out to your car/truck and have someone turn the wheels and watch them. if you swap the spindles on a straight axle you haven't done anything as most don't have a front or back till the spindles are mounted.

I don't think it makes a difference for there could be only front or rear steer cars
if it did. Once the angle is set in the spindle or the added steering hookup its set I
believe no matter the side.
If you were completely designing a new suspension you would have to take it
into account.

 

[Edge of sanity]

If you swap spindles side for side, the brake calipers move to the front.

.

I have seen cars with calipers in front.

 

[Edge of sanity]

I think mine is from a truck its power steering on a strait axle and its behind the axle .. (not) sure thats what it is from either ,, I bought this truck already this way. the arm swings right from the rear of the box to turn left .. a rack from a ford ranger is in front of the axles so it wont work a chevy malibu is located in the rear of the axles .. but a rack may run into clearance problems on the engine JMO

You would have to be setting the engine back. It is one reason that I thought
or this idea anyway to shorten the steering shaft. Long steering shafts act
like torsion bars because they twist more than a shorter one.

 

[Old Iron]

On early GTO's, Camaro, Chevelle, Buick and Olds cars, the steering arms were bolt on configuration and could be front or rear steer by unbolting and switching sides with them.
67 to 69 Camaro

64 to 67 Chevelle up to where I'm not sure possible mid 70's

 

[Edge of sanity]

On early GTO's, Camaro, Chevelle, Buick and Olds cars, the steering arms were bolt on configuration and could be front or rear steer by unbolting and switching sides with them.
67 to 69 Camaro

64 to 67 Chevelle up to where I'm not sure possible mid 70's

Suspension art.