Update to titling process.

[Willowbilly3]

About 4 years ago I asked the nice ladies at the local DMV what it would take to title an old vehicle I might drag in from a ravine and they explained an affidavit process that I could do with a bill of sale. So yesterday I went in to make sure I had everything I need from the scrapper I am buying the 58 and 60 pickups from. It seems too many people were abusing that process and now the only person who can do it is the owner of the land they set on. Yikes, wish I would have known that before I sent half the money. It looks like my only option now is to park them on someones land here and let the land owner do the process for me. This is for South Dakota

 

[earthman]

Can the scrapper provide the affidavit and bill of sale?

 

[Sam_Fear]

You need the bill of sale notarized?

 

[Torch]

A bill of sale is a legal document under commerce law that transfers ownership since like..way before the Magna Carta. It is the primary contract. It must list a buyer and a seller both signatory, a description of the item sold and a description of the consideration in exchange. it must also be dated.
The process of getting it notarized makes it an affidavit that can be entered into the public record as fact. both parties must sign the document in the presence of a notary (special state officer).
In all cases a bill of sale is the instrument that transfers ownership
The title is also a document that not only is an affidavit by the state as to the ownership of the vehicle, the title document in many states is also the primary legal instrument that transfers ownership and it has a standard of law of highest and best instrument.
However in the absence of a title the bill of sale remains the legal transfer instrument (inferior to the title).

It is a right to own a vehicle (private property) and a right to posses what you own. It is a privilege only to operate your property on a PUBLIC right-of-way..It is still a right to operate your vehicle on private property as the law has no authority to regulate operation on private property.

The law would have to first outlaw operation on private property by making it a crime then issue license to operate on private property before they could regulate it.
This is in fact how they created the power to regulate operation on a public highway.
To this date it is still not a crime to operate on private property without a license

Prior to the law making it illegal to operate on a public highway then issuing license to do it..the supreme court ruled in every case that operation of private property is a right.

Why does the question "Does the law require a license to do this" show if something is a right or a privilege?
The shortest legal definition of license is "permission to engage in an illegal activity".
It means the activity is illegal punishable with criminal charges unless you posess this special permission (license)

License is not registration. registration is a public record. Registration conveys no power of license to the registrant... it is only a record.

The law can require registration as a condition for license but lack of registration does not have any force or effect of law by any process to prohibit ownership or possession unless (back to license) a license is requires to posses or own and the rules regulating that license require registration.

Back to vehicle ownership. unless it is a crime to own a vehicle without a license ownership and possession is a right. (rights cannot be regulated).

Any law that by interpretation would prohibit an otherwise lawful activity has (under exigency) no force or effect of law . it does not apply.

Example it is illegal to drive the wrong way on a 2 way street.
But if you are in a semi truck with a 53 foot trailer and it is absolutely impossible for you to get around a corner without driving in the oncoming lane...but it is legal for that truck with it's length of a trailer to be on that street to go around that corner, the the law prohibiting driving in the oncoming lane cannot by exigency prohibit the travel of the truck around that corner and by that definition your not breaking the law but the law simply does not apply in that case.

Another example. It's illegal to go through an intersection on a red light or park in a no parking zone. But if in the course of his duties an emergency responder must run a red light or park in a no parking zone the laws do not apply because by exigent circumstances actions contrary to those laws are unavoidable in the exercise of a lawful right or duty.
They cannot require you to file with the IRS then pass a law making it illegal to fill out a tax form, they cannot pass a law saying no one who is not an employee of a bank may cross the street to get to the bank.
Exigent circumstances. The red light law doesn't apply to the police officer or fireman because of him being a public employee.
It applies because of what he is otherwise lawfully doing would be prohibited by observance of the law.

By exigency any law requiring title and registration to operate on a public highway cannot prohibit you from acquiring title and registration.
If they require it, they must provide a method for anyone (equal protection) to acquire title and registration.

In short... They cannot lawfully require title or registration then tell you that you in particular cannot get one.

I have not reviewed the codes of every state but for the ones that I have, every state who's laws I have reviewed has a lawful method on the books for the acquisition of both title and registration that anyone can carry out... by them requiring it from them, they must provide it.
If you have followed the appropriate method in your state for obtaining title and registration and the officers will not comply with the law and issue the documents then you can sue for your rights and have a judge award ownership and title and decision of the judge becomes a court order requiring the officers provide the documents. A court assignment of ownership trumps all other methods, bill of sale, title, all of them.
The determination of a court is the highest and best standard under the law.

Naturally if you sue for title and registration but have not followed the provided method for obtaining them you are going to **** off the judge for wasting his time.
You might sue the state or raise a john doe lawsuit.
If you can prove in some way you have rights in posession...
Rights to possession are evidenced by bills of sale or other contracts,tow and impoundment contracts, work orders, documentation from land owner testifying he transferred his possession of the vehicle to you or afidavit of anyone with a right to posession of the vehicle transferring his rights to you.

You need to establish in court 1) right to posess, and 2) vested interest or purchase.

Vested interest is anything of value you legally invested into the vehicle, it's storage or care etc.

Now a bill of sale or title is a higher standard than merely showing a right to possess and vested interest... but in a suit for ownership without a bill of sale or a title the right to posess and vested interest evidence ownership and the court can lawfully assign ownership in a thing to one who has rights in possession and some vested interest as long as no higher claim is made against the property.

Why is it necessary to understand this? The law provides a method to do exactly this without the necessity to sue or go to court.
You fill out an affidavit and file it along with the proof you have of rights in possession and vested interest to the state with a bond usually 1.5 times the value of the thing.
The state through the power of the court but without a court case then issues a bonded title. the title remains bonded for a period of usually 3 years during which time any claim may come against the property by anyone with evidence of higher rights in possession and/or vested interest. The purpose of the bond is to remunerate the holder of any successful claim against the property for the loss of the property or the loss of their vested interest when the state assigned ownership of it to you.
After 3 years without a claim you then apply for a clean title and get your bond back.

 

[Hydrocarbon Rocket]

Wow torchman, thats awsome. What is your proffesion? (If you don't mind me asking?)

 

[Willowbilly3]

Thanks for that legal advice torchy. I have sent an email to higher powers at the state capitol level and am awaiting a reply. I'm not aware of my state having a bonded title process but they may. The ladies at the Treasurer's office have never mentioned this during many discussions over the years. One thing I have discovered over the years is that there is always more than one way to skin a cat and most states have multiple processes to the same end. Since I will be combining parts, using a different engine and probably a front stub, it will be an assembled vehicle and that is a different process. Probably the one I will take. Or else have them parked at a family members farm and let them do the affidavit since it has to be the land owner where the vehicle has been left sitting.

 

[Torch]

Wow torchman, thats awsome. What is your proffesion? (If you don't mind me asking?)

I'm a crook [cl


lol no really I'm a carpenter and trucker because I like to work outdoors.
I never ceased study after graduating from high school I probably read 2-4 hours a day some of it is worth knowing.
My gramps and my mom used to buy me books and if I got stumped on a word "they'd say dictionaries over there" then if I couldn't figure something out they'd help me.
I got trained to self educate.
I was reading wind in the willows, lord of the rings, Tarzan, Louis L amour and Zane grey when I was like 8-12.

I had some "freinds" suck me into a crime wave back when I was 18 and went to jail for a bit. I got real interested in the law then, not to get away with anything. I was having trouble with my conscience and when I heard they were looking for me I had to come clean and take what I had coming to get on solid ground, to get my feet in justice.
There is no winning any battle if your not on righteous ground with your feet on Gibraltar.
Before the thieving rampage I had a chip on my shoulder, societal debts to settle. I had been victimized and knew something was drastically wrong from the top down but couldn't see what so I was striking back.
It wasn't about taking anything to have it, it was just terrorism and trying to tear this filthy crooked world a new one.

I had to give up that fight I ended up just spreading the love, not getting even.
But the world is still messed up and I'm beginning to understand it, not that I can do anything about it.
Really I was just doing unsanctioned cop work without a warrant lol.
I had an old timer in the joint tell me young people reach an age when they can see the world is f'ed up. Some it doesn't effect, some don't care but some feel they have to do something. Some do the right thing, some get off in the wrong direction. sometimes all you can do to make things right is just take what you got coming and get turned around." He also said some people are destined for great things but only you can make the decisions that cause it to be great evil or great good.
Looking back if I had not gone the wrong way I probably would have fallen into the system fallen asleep and been corrupted by it like most others.

There is an underlying clarity to the law but it is corrupted with overtones of malpractice. Judges rule, legislators legislate, enforcers enforce at times unlawfully out of lack of education or because of moderately adequate but not excellent education. or even because of education itself misrepresenting the facts. The water gets muddied by all the concessions and trespass justified by mistake or for political expediency such as getting elected or incarcerating more bad guys. When Enforcers,Judges and Legislators malpractice the end result is legal precedence that becomes far removed from justice and the system needs a gross correction.

So the answer to the problem is to sound the depths of our ideology, examine the roots of our laws, come to understand it simply and clearly and then restore the ideology to practice by writing a book, making speeches,running for office. By engineering a just, sound and unassailable platform then promoting it if the people will endorse it.
being a reformer not a terrorist

 

[Torch]

"some people are destined for great things but only you can make the decisions that cause it to be great evil or great good"
What I remember from English Lit. Every hero in an epic has a tragic flaw that causes him to fall. it's true, the hubris of man.
By the same argument, Ordinary men have mediocre flaws which have little or no effect but the ordinary man never changes the world.
Those who have changed the world admit they were called to it. Many are called few succeed. If you think you might have the capacity to change the world it becomes really important to know what you are doing, watch what you say, watch what you do.
I've gone on the internet and posted certain ideas about. specific ideas in targeted audiences to see if I could effect change, change the dialogue. I have. Was it me or was I likewise influenced by others to stimulate change? hard to say but when you come to the public and speak things not being said using certain words never used for the subject and you find them being parroted it makes you feel pretty good.
I think the key is having a strong message that resonates with the public and using words they would love to use that they have not been using. If people use your wordngs they are drawn into thinking in the thought patterns you are communicating not just in the wholesale ideas.
I discovered this principle when they pounded the people through the media with the terms "Identity theft"
Up until then when someone got into your bank account it was your fault for them getting the information but if a crook crooked industry and banking pretending to be someone else then the bank was the victim not you because it was the bank that did not practce due dilligence to insure the customer was who they were claiming to be.
They key is that according to the government the money you have deposited in the bank belongs to the bank not you. the bank is indebted to you but is not holding your currency. I f the bank get's hoodwinked it's the bank that suffered.

There is no such thing as identity theft. The legal definition of theft is taking something away from someone or depriving them the use of it.
You cannot be deprived of your identity nor can it be removed from you. it is intrinsic (look that up) to your person.

What they did was they took control of the dialogue. they pounded the people with certain choices of words to get them thinking the way they wanted them to think so they could make your identity removable from you then make you responsible for someone impersonating you. People were pounded with the words Identity theft until they believed it existed then they wrote new laws. I heard no one question this change in ideology and law. I heard no-one stand up for the truth.
This is when I realized the power in not just what you say but the choice of words you use. You can control the dialogue through rightspeak and wrongspeak as in the book 1984 and thereby control the way people think and act. But you can also use the carrot and the stick method. dress up the change you want to convey in snappy overtones and bright colors, fine smells and delicious tastes and the people will eat it up.
But the people are smart you can sell them on a sugar powdered turd or you can sell them the real thing packed so well no grifter could ever interest them in a proverbial sugared fecolith

 

[donsrods]

And he took the Evelyn Wood Speed Typing Class too !

Don

 

[RAT FINK]

And he took the Evelyn Wood Speed Typing Class too !

Don

[cl[cl[cl I can't talk as fast as he can type....Trucker's.....he probably texts faster than most people type

 

[Torch]

[cl[cl[cl I can't talk as fast as he can type....Trucker's.....he probably texts faster than most people type

You gotta train wearing snomobile mittens