Using a tank instead of radiator

[HOT40ROD]

A tank won't disperse the heat, but it will store it. Even using a larger capacity won't help in the end, it would only take longer to over heat. You will need to remove the heat from the coolant, and it seems the best way is still the old way, with a radiator. I don't know if a 8N rad has enough surface area or not, they aren't big in square inches, but if I remember right, they are fairly thick. Someone else can likely answer that part of the question, I've never tried it. Sniper

I'm using a N8 radiator in my modal T and had is running in the garage with no issues. tractor rad were design to run all day with the tractor standing still. There is as much area on the raiator as the early mustangs.

I used a new rad and had a radiator shop put larger inlets in it.

 

[HOT40ROD]

Here are some pictures of it. I have the cardboard around it to protect it. If you look that is the radiator cap on top of the grille. It fills up that grille and the grille is a 34 international grille.

 

[Davidhud29]

Thanks for the replies. Nice looking build. Build thread?

 

[zzrodder]

I was wondering about a copper tubing radiator for something different. Like
2" tube top and bottom for the tanks and 1/2" running up and down,maybe staggered in two rows.Would it work or would it be just a stupid idea. I have lots of those!

A few years ago there was an article in a rod magazine about a new rad made from solid copper, I think it was by Brassworks, or maybe not... Anyway, it was basically built like a boiler, a flat copper sheet front and back with 3/8" copper tubes running thru. The coolant flows around the tubes, air flows thru them, it used no top or bottom tanks and could be made in virtually any shape. They had one about the size of a Model T rad that would cool a big block, no prob. It was expensive since it was very labour intensive to build and all the tubes were swedged in and there were a lot of them. I saw ads in StreetRodder for a while but I guess it never really took off. It raises all sorts of possibilities for constructing a rad in some crazy shape (skull comes to mind) - Hey, in these days of TIG welded everything it could be made of aluminum by a talented fabricator......

 

[ratdog]

So the tubes would run the short way between the two sheets I would guess.Interresting idea have to look into that some more.Thanks.

 

[zzrodder]

So the tubes would run the short way between the two sheets I would guess.Interresting idea have to look into that some more.Thanks.

Oh, yeah it was all boxed in, roughly the dimensions of a regular rad, about 2 or 3 " thick, viewed from the front, it looked like a honeycomb. But like I said above, it need not be rectangular in shape and it could be made to fit around the frame or suspension. The inlet at top and the outlet at bottom are just plugged right into the back with no tanks - actually the entire thing is one big tank - I'll try do do a drawing and post it for you.

 

[zzrodder]

OK, here's my crude drawing of the rad I was talking about, air flows thru all the little tubes as it is virtually just one tank, inlet and outlets on the back like normal. Below is my equally crude drawing of a skull rad (demented, huh ?)[S, you could even add fins to the surface to give it character lines or whatever, pretty much any shape is possible..... Quite a bit of tedious fabricating to pull it off[[ but it would really blow minds !!

 

[BigIrish]

That looks really cool. I think the only issue is getting enough surface area exposed to the air to pull the heat out. Think about all the surface area of all the fins in a normal radiator....a ton!

Maybe if it was made very thick so the tubes were longer... but hard to calc that kind of thing without a computer and engineering degree.

 

[zzrodder]

That looks really cool. I think the only issue is getting enough surface area exposed to the air to pull the heat out. Think about all the surface area of all the fins in a normal radiator....a ton!

Maybe if it was made very thick so the tubes were longer... but hard to calc that kind of thing without a computer and engineering degree.

Actually it's really not too hard to calculate the surface area - in a normal rad it's the tubes that hold the coolant, so you just need to figure the surface area of 1 tube - eg. : say a 1/2" tube, 24" long, 1/8" thick, so - 1/2 +1/2 + 1/8 + 1/8 = 1 1/4" x 24 " = 30 sq. in. per tube. Now multiply that times the number of tubes in a rad that would be sufficient to cool your chosen engine and you have the surface area needed.
Granted, the fins also help disperse heat, so just go large on the number of tubes. Also figure in that the entire surface not occupied by tubes will also radiate heat, including the sides, top and bottom.
One 3/8" x 3" tube would have about 4.5" of cooling surface on it's inside so it would take 6.66 such tubes to be equivalent to one of the above standard type 1/2" x 24" tubes. Now it's easy to calculate the number of tubes you need to be cool and decide on their spacing, and it's possible to determine the actual outer dimensions of the rad. Then you can play with the shape while maintaining that number of tubes. Additionally fins could be added to the exterior to give another cooling boost.
It's really just like a boiler except they move hot air through the tubes to heat the water, in this case you'd be moving cool air through to cool the water. In the article in Streetrodder mag, they had a demo unit that was the size of a Model T rad and it cooled a big block easily! I'm not saying it would be easy by any means but the theory is sound, it has been done before, I think the real limiting factor is the labour involved to produce it.

 

[Old Dude]

When I was stationed in Texas in the Air Force, I knew this 2nd Louie that raced stock cars. He had a 56 Chevy with no radiator. I asked him how that worked. He took me over to the car and showed me his setup. He had the Rad in the back seat with heater blower fans on it. I asked him why. His answer was he was tired of replacing his radiator when he wrecked. 2 weeks later he had it back in the front. It seems he got rolled over and got sprayed with hot anti freeze when his rad cracked. I guess someone has to try and reinvent the wheel.

 

[zzrodder]

An update on the tank and tube radiator idea.

I saw an article about the Brassworks experimental radiator I described above and it seems the whole idea was something of a flop !! StreetRodder did tests on it in real world driving situations ( traffic ! ) and it turned out that it just stored too much heat instead of getting rid of it. The temp kept on climbing and was extremely hard to bring down without stopping the engine. It just couldn't shed the heat as fast as a regular rad - in order to increase the surface area, the fluid capacity went up too - just too much hot water and metal to cool off.
I guess it made a better hot water heater than radiator.......

So much for bright ideas.....

 

[donsrods]

That makes sense about the one from Brassworks not working in a real world situation............nothing beats a good old radiator for cooling. I have a Brassworks radiator in my 27 that I had them build over 20 years ago. I think I am finally going to have to replace it with an aluminum one from PRC. It just isn't up to the job of cooling the 331 in the car now........runs at about 210-220, and that is warmer than I like the aluminum heads getting.

If anyone is considering putting a radiator in the back, Speedway sells some great "universal" aluminum radiators in Ford and Chevy hose configurations, and in various widths. Price is very competitive.

Don

 

[RPM]

A crazy idea I have had for years is to use the tube frame rails as a radiator. Send the water down inside the left frame rail across the rear cross member and then up the right frame rail, back the the engine. The would be a lot of surface area to dissipate heat. The highest point would be the thermostat housing and you would have to get all the air out. Never tried it too much work. I figured if it would work everybody else would be doing it.

 

[zzrodder]

A crazy idea I have had for years is to use the tube frame rails as a radiator. Send the water down inside the left frame rail across the rear cross member and then up the right frame rail, back the the engine. The would be a lot of surface area to dissipate heat. The highest point would be the thermostat housing and you would have to get all the air out. Never tried it too much work. I figured if it would work everybody else would be doing it.

Boy, I'm glad you said it first, I thought I was the only one to think of that. I think it would run into the same problem of too much water volume to cool...
On a warm day that would redefine the meaning of a "hot ride" , being surrounded by a hot frame....
I also thought of using tubes from a hot water radiator - the kind that are copper pipes with a bunch of aluminum fins on them - and run them along the frame rails underneath....[S
But like you said, if it was so smart, we'd see it out there on the road.