1929 Essex/Truck

[Bamamav]

Looking good man...

But I do have a thought/concern on your front end set up... I know I have seen the cepen style fronts setup with hairpins before but I'm not sure how people get around the issue...

Here's what I see in my head. If you have hairpins and air bags up front how do you ever dial in the axle camber? Unless you always run the exact same pressure in the bags you will be putting the axle at a different angle every time you air up. (Since the suspension moves on an arc) After recently experiencing the death wobble myself it's not something you want to deal with regularly that's for sure...

That being said even though mine is on a 4 link front and rear... I still can affect the axle angle by being at a different ride height in the rear.. But my front end geometry is always the same

Just food for thought ...

I was thinking a four bar would be better in the front, too. Lot of stress on the end of that hairpin.

 

[DozerII]

I really like your build, lots of cool touches.

I have a question about the front bag setup. It looks like the base support of the bags (pivot bars?, not sure what to call them) is bolted through the radius rod bracket. Am I seeing that correctly? If so, doesn't that place a huge amount of weight on those two bolts (one on each side)? Any concerns with that?

I am a newb to these builds, so not criticizing, just trying to understand since I still need to figure out what to do with mine.

Thanks and once again, good job on the build...

Thanks for stopping by Az33, you are seeing it properly, I had/have the same concerns, but the CEN PEN is designed the dame way and most all transverse spring setups hang on one bolt as well. The two arms under the air bags function very similar too a spring I think!! I'm a Newb as well

Looking good man...

But I do have a thought/concern on your front end set up... I know I have seen the cepen style fronts setup with hairpins before but I'm not sure how people get around the issue...

Here's what I see in my head. If you have hairpins and air bags up front how do you ever dial in the axle camber? Unless you always run the exact same pressure in the bags you will be putting the axle at a different angle every time you air up. (Since the suspension moves on an arc) After recently experiencing the death wobble myself it's not something you want to deal with regularly that's for sure...

That being said even though mine is on a 4 link front and rear... I still can affect the axle angle by being at a different ride height in the rear.. But my front end geometry is always the same

Just food for thought ...

Thanks CORPO, I don't believe the camber can change just the Caster angle cuz of the arc the hairpins follow. I kept the hairpins level with the axle in the center of the 5 inches of total travel, which should only give me approximatley 1/2 - 3/4 of a degree of caster change. I have it set at 6 degrees at present to start with, but like I said I'm a newb at this.

I was thinking a four bar would be better in the front, too. Lot of stress on the end of that hairpin.

Thanks Bamamav, could you explain a little more, I thought long and hard on a four link but I couldn't see how it would work with the CenPen style cross member.

Thanks Guys.

 

[CORPO]

You are right I meant caster... I get those terms messed up in my head sometimes

As far as a 4 bar vs the hairpin... I can't see why u couldn't do a 4 bar with a cepen style front...

 

[jfg455]

I'll chime in here on the suspension design...

A: You are correct. The mount through the hairpin is the same idea as a traverse spring behind set up. Loads will be the same. Just use a fastener that will handle the load in shear

B: Due to how long the hairpin is IE: from pivot to axle center, I don't think you will get very much caster gain +/- from aired all the way up to dropped 100%. That being said I would suggest setting your caster angle at where you want your ride height. You won't have a worry about caster when it's on the ground.

C: You might want to sneak a pan hard bar in there somewhere if you start to see side to side movement. In a traditional traverse spring you compress the spring (which makes it longer due to flattening the arc) and attach the shackles. This puts tension on the shackles on both sides and resists side to side movement. Another point is the spring needs the shackle because it changes length as it compresses or decompresses. Your set up has the lower arm / bag mount as a solid arm that does not change length as it moves up and down and therefore no tension on the shackles. This could make the axle pivot side to side on the shackles.

Just food for thought and in no way meant as a dig on your build. [P

 

[DozerII]

I'll chime in here on the suspension design...

A: You are correct. The mount through the hairpin is the same idea as a traverse spring behind set up. Loads will be the same. Just use a fastener that will handle the load in shear

B: Due to how long the hairpin is IE: from pivot to axle center, I don't think you will get very much caster gain +/- from aired all the way up to dropped 100%. That being said I would suggest setting your caster angle at where you want your ride height. You won't have a worry about caster when it's on the ground.

C: You might want to sneak a pan hard bar in there somewhere if you start to see side to side movement. In a traditional traverse spring you compress the spring (which makes it longer due to flattening the arc) and attach the shackles. This puts tension on the shackles on both sides and resists side to side movement. Another point is the spring needs the shackle because it changes length as it compresses or decompresses. Your set up has the lower arm / bag mount as a solid arm that does not change length as it moves up and down and therefore no tension on the shackles. This could make the axle pivot side to side on the shackles.

Just food for thought and in no way meant as a dig on your build. [P

A. I used a 5/8" grade eight bolt through both plates with a spacer in between.

B. Okay that is the way I saw it, Do you think a four link is needed for strength, or it the hair pin sufficient?

C. With the airbag arms running independent of each other in an arc, and the shackle at a 45 degree angle from the arm to the hair pin mount, you feel it may need a panhard bar as well?



Thanks so much for all the feed back guys really appreciate it.[cl

 

[jfg455]

A: 5/8" is probably ok in that application
B: hairpin is fine for strength. Yours is way more beefy than many store bought units
C: Not really sure if you will definitely need a pan hard bar for that style. I have not built one like it so I don't have any real world experience with it. Just take your first test drives slow and increase speed incrementally until you know it won't wobble. [P

 

[Bamamav]

Four bar will allow the axle to move up and down without changing caster. Single mounted hairpin will allow caster change as axle moves up and down.
Either will work, just depends on how much travel you have as to which works best. The stress will be divided between two mounting points on each side with the 4 bar instead of being only on 1 on the hairpin. Remember, not only do the bars locate the axle, they also must absorb braking forces when stopping.

 

[DozerII]

A: 5/8" is probably ok in that application
B: hairpin is fine for strength. Yours is way more beefy than many store bought units
C: Not really sure if you will definitely need a pan hard bar for that style. I have not built one like it so I don't have any real world experience with it. Just take your first test drives slow and increase speed incrementally until you know it won't wobble. [P

Four bar will allow the axle to move up and down without changing caster. Single mounted hairpin will allow caster change as axle moves up and down.
Either will work, just depends on how much travel you have as to which works best. The stress will be divided between two mounting points on each side with the 4 bar instead of being only on 1 on the hairpin. Remember, not only do the bars locate the axle, they also must absorb braking forces when stopping.

Thanks for the great feedback,decisions, decisions[S

 

[Old Iron]

There's always different approaches to getting things to work and these are good ones.

 

[DozerII]

There's always different approaches to getting things to work and these are good ones.

Isn't that the truth.


Finally some progress. I can't believe how long it takes to design and build something that seems a simple as a motor mount[S. This is the third design.





I also deceided to stay with the hairpins, but will keep a close eye on them. I got them all welded up this morning and had to clearance the left side outer plate for the steering arm.



Had to set some tires up for incentive.



Speaking of tires, Great Buddy came through with some real nice 195 55 R14 tires for the front I will have them next weekend. I'm planning on 295 50 R 15 for the rear.

Another score got a complete 75 Caprice with a good 350 turbo trans for a donor for all the little items I will need for $150.

 

[Old Iron]

Depending on the wheels, most 14" wheels won't fit over disc brake calipers.

 

[Gunzenrosa]

Isn't that the truth.


Finally some progress. I can't believe how long it takes to design and build something that seems a simple as a motor mount

That is very true. The things that seem so trivial always seem to take a little longer to get right. Keep at it. If it was easy it wouldn't be fun.

 

[DozerII]

Depending on the wheels, most 14" wheels won't fit over disc brake calipers.

These wheels are from a 73 Buick Century, I had them bolted on with the scabby old tires, there wasn't a lot of clearance but they fit.

Isn't that the truth.


Finally some progress. I can't believe how long it takes to design and build something that seems a simple as a motor mount

That is very true. The things that seem so trivial always seem to take a little longer to get right. Keep at it. If it was easy it wouldn't be fun.

Lots of fun is the key, love challenging the grey matter

 

[Old Iron]

These wheels are from a 73 Buick Century, I had them bolted on with the scabby old tires, there wasn't a lot of clearance but they fit.

Lots of fun is the key, love challenging the grey matter

Good deal [cl

 

[DozerII]

Using the hood from a 50's F100 I closed in the roof on the Essex, stiil got some welding to do and a little more dolly work.

 

[smallfoot]

Roof came out good!

 

[bob w]

smallfoot said it.

 

[Gunzenrosa]

Looking good Glen. Keep at it.

 

[DozerII]

Thanks guys, that is quite the job, my first attempt at reshaping previously formed tin.[S

 

[Country Misfit]

Nice job,looks good.