1933 chevy tudor sedan aka Project Copper Tone!

[Bump Stop]

I am impressed with what grace you are able to take "constructive criticism" from these guys.

Just don't let them dictate your build to the point where it has none of your unique character.

"Build by committee" is a sure way to a plain, ugly car.

 

[clamor]

I am impressed with what grace you are able to take "constructive criticism" from these guys.

Just don't let them dictate your build to the point where it has none of your unique character.

"Build by committee" is a sure way to a plain, ugly car.

The criticism of the build at this point has been regarding safety and functionality from experienced builders.

There were no calls of "A 360 Ford is not traditional, GET THE PITCHFORKS AND TORCHES!!!"

-Chaz

 

[zzrodder]

The criticism of the build at this point has been regarding safety and functionality from experienced builders.

There were no calls of "A 360 Ford is not traditional, GET THE PITCHFORKS AND TORCHES!!!"

-Chaz

Don't let us "know-it-alls" get you down, just keep the BS filter on and you'll do fine..
Personally, I think the 360 FE engine is great, too many belly button SB Chevs out there anyways..

 

[endicott_jb]

Today I got quite a bit done on the rat. I got the front end finished until I can get my left hand thread nuts. Then I'll be able to take the front end of the frame off the blocks and put the wheels and tires on. I also cut all the brackets off the rear axle so I can fix it. I got your the tape measure and started measuring things and turns out the left side was 1/8th of an inch off compared to the right side. I'm also going to redo the spring perches and the pan hard bar. Hopefully, just hopefully I get it right this time so I can drop the body back onto the frame and set the engine and trans in. Anyhow, a few pictures.

 

[Dirtyrat]

I am impressed with what grace you are able to take "constructive criticism" from these guys.

Just don't let them dictate your build to the point where it has none of your unique character.

"Build by committee" is a sure way to a plain, ugly car.

I think you had better re-think these comments. This is not a site where people push others or force them down a path. The only time things get serious here is about safety, and this is one of those times. There is a right and a wrong way to do a transverse front leaf spring setup, and the comments were to direct the design in the correct direction with proper suspension travel and shackle arrangement.

I think just about everyone at one time or another has designed and built something that just didn't turn out to be safe or an effective way, and re-designed it to be better.

We are a good group of people here who look out for one another, and it is meant to be a warm safe place for people to share their builds and get advice, encouragement, learn, and share their experiences..

 

[endicott_jb]

I'm going from the acvw world to the rat rod world so this is way out of my realm of expertise and I am thankful for the guidance I have gotten on this forum. It has been a blessing and a curse lol. Just cause I'm having to go back over what I already screwed up. But at the same time, I'm being shown where my errors are and how I have to fix them. Suspension, steering, and braking are the biggest parts of safety in a car and I don't wanna put the rest of the world at risk cause of some stupid mistake I made with that portion of the build.

 

[endicott_jb]

Lots done today though it may not look like it. I've redone some of the rear end. I still need to address the panhard bar. But otherwise, I'm liking how it's looking a lot more now. Also worked on the front end and I think yesterday I posted some previous pictures so you'll see how it turned out. Installed my disc brake kit and found out I need spacers to use the front wheels I have. Also, my rear wheels are the wrong bolt pattern though they're supposedly "unilug". So I'm gonna try to find some wheel adapters so I can use them. Anyhow, pictures.

Hopefully fastenal gets my left hand nuts in so I can finish up the hairpins. But I think it's starting to take shape.

 

[Bamamav]

Might want to put some side to side gusset bracing on the spring mount to keep it from collapsing sideways. And a panhard bar would help keep the front axle centered, too. Just a suggestion.

 

[JBailey]

Now this is just a question and I'm not trying to say you need to build it a certain way but, are you just using 2 links on your axle and not regular style hairpins or radius rods, and are your links in the way of the tie rod and that's why you're running it in front of the axle? Also is there enough room between your links and the frame rails you won't get any rubbing or binding? Again just questions lol.

 

[endicott_jb]

Yes, I'm running the drag link in front of the axle cause there's clearance issues with the radius rods and the drag link. Plus, I think having the drag link out front is kinda cool looking. I have about 1/4 inch between the frame rails and the radius rods. I went in today and gusseted the spring perch up a bit. I still wanna do one more gusset between the perch but for today, I got enough done before work.

 

[Dr Crankenstein]

Don't shoot! Just trying to help construct, not criticize.

As it sits, you're relying on the spring and shackles to locate the axle. You'll need another radius rod... or a true hairpin with two fixed points at the axle (high and low) in order to set and maintain caster.

I'm not trying to force-feed anything and I understand you're doing with what's available to you... that said, I'm not wild about using a nut in place of an adapter. A nut relies entirely on the weld and very few threads by comparison, a failure waiting to happen in my opinion.

.

 

[Sam_Fear]

You're also gonna have a problem with the Ackerman angle with the tie rod out front. The ends need to be at least as far out as the kingpins. If possible they should be in a line with the kingpin and the rear pinion. As it is now, as the front wheels turn, the outside tire will turn in sharper then the inside tire - not good, the opposite should happen.


Didn't think you were in for so much learnin' huh?

 

[zzrodder]

You're also gonna have a problem with the Ackerman angle with the tie rod out front. The ends need to be at least as far out as the kingpins. If possible they should be in a line with the kingpin and the rear pinion. As it is now, as the front wheels turn, the outside tire will turn in sharper then the inside tire - not good, the opposite should happen.

Uh Sam, take a better look at his pics, the inside tire is turning sharper as it should - the steering arms and tie rod are unmodified - just 'cause they're out front doesn't change anything. Millions of OEM vehicles use this same setup, it's not a problem.
Dr. C is right about the radius rods though - you need two mounting points at the axle or some other solid mounting system to keep the axle from twisting during suspension travel and especially during braking., don't use the heim joint there.

 

[endicott_jb]

Question ZZ, why not? I'm not doubting your knowledge I'm just trying to understand what's wrong with the design. I may be missing a crucial element but on older t buckets, a lot of them used just single rods rather than hairpins. Then again, those were buckets made 20-30 years ago.

 

[choppinczech]

Question ZZ, why not? I'm not doubting your knowledge I'm just trying to understand what's wrong with the design. I may be missing a crucial element but on older t buckets, a lot of them used just single rods rather than hairpins. Then again, those were buckets made 20-30 years ago.

The axle's gonna roll back during braking. You need two attachment points. The whole setup will pivot on the at the spring perch.

 

[JBailey]

I don't think those were single links like what you have, they would've been split wishbones which would give you an upper and lower mounting point on the axle.

 

[zzrodder]

Question ZZ, why not? I'm not doubting your knowledge I'm just trying to understand what's wrong with the design. I may be missing a crucial element but on older t buckets, a lot of them used just single rods rather than hairpins. Then again, those were buckets made 20-30 years ago.

The heim joint allows the axle to twist, putting strain on the spring shackles like Doc said. The single rod you are thinking of is probably a Ford split wishbone or similar - they are mounted solidly to the axle with a thru bolt or perch bolt to prevent the axle from twisting.
Here's a pic of a fabricated radius rod I made using the perch bolt setup - this is also a Chevy axle like yours - I cut off the spring mounts and built up the web of the axle to use the perch bolt.

 

[endicott_jb]

Hey ZZ, can you take a zoomed in picture of that? I magnified it but it gets all sorts of fuzzy.

 

[zzrodder]

Here ya go. This is an air spring setup though the principle is the same with the radius rods. I made them higher than the typical Ford 'bones' to clear the tie rod. This is also using a Vega box with cross steering and a Panhard rod since there is virtually no triangulation with the radius rods almost parallel to the frame plus the air springs offer no resistance to side to side movement.
Also a couple pics of another Chevy axle, also with air ride but using the traditional style 'hairpin' radius rods.

 

[endicott_jb]

Okay, so I'm sitting here, staring at my front end and I don't see how it'll roll back under braking. The radius rods control the amount of caster plus lateral movement. The heims would allow the axle to maintain a constant caster under different spring movement correct? Where I have the mounts positioned, underneath the axle rather than on top or in the center would control the amount of "sway" that the spring perch would endure under braking. Or at least the way I picture it in my mind it would. Maybe I'm just a little list at why they engineered things the way they did when they created these front ends back in the 20s. I'm trying to picture every feasible way that this setup I have right now could fail and over and over again, I just don't see it. But, then again, I am new at this stuff and don't completely understand it all.