1949 Bentley Boattail Speedster

[Flipper_1938]

I suspect you will be wasting your $$$ on the HF wheel. The reports I have read say the wheels aren't concentric - some have been reported to be out .010". Also, the tubing is very thin; there are no gussets - the frame isn't strong enough to get any real pressure. The guys on metalshapers.com have beefed up the frame, but they still aren't real happy with the results.

Check out Ron Covell's or Mittler brothers and look at the difference in frames.

Interesting buck fixture on the hydraulic press.
The Bentley is looking great!

People talk about the HF wheel being junk, but in reality, I bet you can use one to make panels better than a better than average person beating out body panels by hand with hammers and dollies.

 

[jfg455]

search ebay for a 'Kit' that has all of the wheels you need. Then just fab up your own frame. saves a bunch of dough

 

[PA41]

Drove it out of the shop this afternoon and did a couple 'stacking tin' shots to get an idea where to go. Had to hurry it a little, its suppozed to rain the next 3-4 days, and I wanted to back it in and start on the tail.

Just proped the tail up on the rear, and tacked on a fender to get an idea--it needs to go up a couple inches.. Obviously a few body panels missing as you can see all the way through the 'car' ..

In the last shot where the door post and boattail meet--I have a piece of the rear door molding just like the front door molding that I think I can weld one end to the post and twist the other end to lay on the tail and do a good transition . I need to think about a 3" lower tail at the door post and tapering the top of the door down 3", as most Speedsters had the peak of the dash appx 3" higher than the top of the tail.. Need to think about it.. keep me entertained while it rains this weekend... That migh screw up the transition though??

The profile in pic #2 shows the need to create a ridge on the end of the boattail to match the angle of the rear fenders. Start at a point right below the shutters on the house and duplicate the angle of the fenderline to the rear edge. Looking at pic #3 , imagine the tails ridge and the two fenderswith the same angle -- (ya gotta squint your eyes real hard and twist your head a little ) .


(Someone needs to mow the yard!!!).

PA41

 

[Unkl Ian]

Do the doors need to be longer, front to back ?


Excellent progress.

 

[DJ3100]

search ebay for a 'Kit' that has all of the wheels you need. Then just fab up your own frame. saves a bunch of dough

That's what I did - not cheaper than the HF E wheel. But, when I turn the adjuster wheel I can predict the result.

PA41 From the last group of photos I can see why you're thinking E Wheel.

I bought the HF planishing hammer, it works pretty well - actually better than the one I built. With a bag, a mallet and a planishing hammer you could do everything the HF bead roller would and more.

All any of those tools do is stretch metal - it really doesn't matter which method you use. For me, the bag, a few hammers and the planishing hammer is easier to get the shape I'm looking for than the E wheel.

 

[Tripper]

41,
Wow... that is really takin' shape. Gotta love those kool peaked fenders!

BoB

 

[jfg455]

41,
Gotta love those kool peaked fenders!

BoB

+1. the fenders are cool for sure. Don't see them like that much

 

[jfg455]

That's what I did - not cheaper than the HF E wheel. But, when I turn the adjuster wheel I can predict the result.

You are absolutely right on that aspect. You can also beef up the frame so it doesn't walk around when you are trying to wheel something.

 

[Sam_Fear]

How about this? Swooped the door line down about 2-3", tilted the tail down to match - pivoted around the rear tip, moved the rear fender up about 3", and filled in the rear quarter. Didn't cut the grass, but your house is now crooked!

If you'd like me to PS something else on it, just ask. I'd be glad to do what little I can to help ya.

 

[Corsair]

Coming together nicely, whot.

(Bentley-speak)

Cheerio, old horse.

PS, Sam, good rendition. But try to get the grass next time.

 

[Lightning]

Wow Sam - that looks great - if only it were that easy - NAW -what fun would that be. Lookin' good there PA41, front fenders are killers - back is looking good. Keep it up.

 

[PA41]

I 'preciate all the input fellas--It's helpfull to hear from people that know sheatmetal work, and what needs done. I'ts looking a little daunting now--I've done the EASY stuff.. I'm going to do all I can on the body panels from junk car parts--hoods/tops/fenders etc, and then do what I can with the metal working tools to tie it together--May have to go to a metal shop for some help as was suggested earlier.. I'll do all I can..

I'm glad you guys agree with me on those fenders--they were the main reason I got the thing--Like HRPreacher sez--I got a "fender fetish" now... (I'm not sure what that is, but sounds kinda kinky ) I want to put big swoopy fenders on everything!!

That PS job was sweet Sam--thanx--I saved it for my desktop, and am telling everyone that comes in my office --"thats my Bentley" Then doing that Corsair thing--Pip Pip--cheerieo--Being pretty obnoxious about it--"I DROVE a BENTLY YESTERDAY!! Anyone EVER drove a BENTLEY??"

I ain't telling them what REALLY happened-- worked 2 hours on the carb to get it running (the vac secondaries were comming on at Idle!?? !Wired em shut) Whats that about? I drove that thing in a month ago? The brake rod is too tight and I have to pull up on the pedal with my foot to free them up enough to drive.. The steering colum slid in and the wheel stuck on the windshield wiper knob and I almost hit a tree in the yard, and The rear fender I tacked on fell off before I took the Pics... Reality sucks....

I DROVE A BENTLEY YESTERDAY!!---woo hoo..

Thanks for the input...More as it comes..

PA41

 

[Sam_Fear]

....Being pretty obnoxious about it--"I DROVE a BENTLY YESTERDAY!! Anyone EVER drove a BENTLEY??"

I ain't telling them what REALLY happened-- worked 2 hours on the carb to get it running (the vac secondaries were comming on at Idle!?? !Wired em shut) Whats that about? I drove that thing in a month ago? The brake rod is too tight and I have to pull up on the pedal with my foot to free them up enough to drive.. The steering colum slid in and the wheel stuck on the windshield wiper knob and I almost hit a tree in the yard, and The rear fender I tacked on fell off before I took the Pics... Reality sucks....

That cracked me up!!

And like I said PA41, if you need an visual of how an idea might look, I'll give it a shot with PS. I did notice that lowering the front of the roof section helped match the curve of it better.

 

[PA41]

Like I said PA41, if you need an visual of how an idea might look, I'll give it a shot with PS. I did notice that lowering the front of the roof section helped match the curve of it better.

Thanks Sam--I might take you up on it--I downloaded Gimp a while back, but never mastered it. It's really usefull to study pics--like you said, the roof section/boattail curve does look better lowered--it kinda has a humped look otherwise. Details like that make a big difference. Some of the 'not quite right' things can't be fixed and have to be tollerated, but too many turns the car sour..

Also, with your PS pic I noticed the drip edge on the top/tail -- lines up to match the hood accent line, and it sort of ties them together. I like your door treatment concept and how the molding curves down and then up to the back, but curving the 3 hump curved molding is hard to do. I think I could cut the doors down to the bottom part of the molding to get a one hump molding like the hood has, and turn the corner up and across the back with some strap the same width/thickness, and line up the drip edge with it at the door post. That way I could lower the door height appx 2" and tie the whole hood/door/tail together with a 3/4" wide molding and drip edge line.

PSed Pix are really usefull--thanks for the work..

PA41

 

[Sam_Fear]

The door treatment was just easier for me to PS that way. I was just trying to swoop the doors a bit like the Auburns do. In reality, that triple layered trim line would probably look real bulky besides being a real pain to do. And then I just threw on the rearward part to fill a gap.

I'm thinking getting that trim line right is going to be important. What you described above is basically what I did in PS. Maybe if I get a few minutes I could go back and trim up that door trim to visualize your idea.

It's starting to look like a cross between an Auburn and a Duesenburg. The door swoop on the Duesy might be more fitting?

33 Duesenberg:

 

[Shea Laking]

How about this? Swooped the door line down about 2-3", tilted the tail down to match - pivoted around the rear tip, moved the rear fender up about 3", and filled in the rear quarter. Didn't cut the grass, but your house is now crooked!

If you'd like me to PS something else on it, just ask. I'd be glad to do what little I can to help ya.

That's killer, right there. The dropped down door line is what's missing. Great PhotoChop, Sam.

She's coming along quite nicely, PA. You could probably manage the dropped character lines using a combo of steel rod, Conduit and strap or sheetmetal.

Either way, I can't wait to see what you come up with next.[

Regards,
Shea

 

[earthman]

This might motivate you to persevere when the going gets tough PA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyVKj_qcLxk&feature=fvsr

 

[PA41]

Starting to look like a cross between an Auburn and a Duesenburg. The door swoop on the Duesy might be more fitting?

Yeah--the Duesy is closer to the profile that the Bentley body offers. It is a little flatter and squared where the Auburn body is more swooping.

There is a little issue with the cockpit structure where it'd be a lot easier if I left the tail higher at the doorpost, and raised the tail to achieve the contour you produced. Then come back from the windshield appx. 3" and scallop the door top down to about 1/2" above the botom edge of the molding and cut it back to the tail. The end of the cockpit is appx 9" back from the rear door post and the top edge is the 1"x3" crossmember, thats where the cross body trim would lay. That would leave the drip rail and botom door molding and hood trim in a line to tie the body together.

My pic is going downhill a little, but the car is really close to flat, maybe a bit nose down. Most speedsters were flat to nose high, and I will most likely rase the front up 2" or so-- It has a Dodge PU frame with cut springs, and I have a fresh pair of springs to put in to raise it up pretty easy..

This weekend I hope to build the tail structure with 1"x1" and make it a stand alone unit like a car hood. I think the long frame is going to be pretty flexy, and I want the tail to give a little. That may mean a body cut line about 1/2 way up the 'rear door' area.. Not too fond of that idea, and I may use some dezus fasteners for the tail side panels like stock car bodies so I dont have the cut line.

Thats a sweet duesy pic--heres an Arburn pic to compair & the PSd Bentley project-- Not exactly a multy million $ car like the other two, but for the $2500 I estimate to have in it so far--and a little more tweeking, it'll make a jalopy version.

It takes alot of nerve to put this thing in the same post with those two cars--doesn't it.. I ain't got no shame---

I'll get it closer....Thanks for the interest.. Later

PA41

 

[Sam_Fear]

OK heres another shot at it = my PC is screwing up - so here are the pics

 

[Sam_Fear]

Ok, my PS'ing PC just shut off, I had another pic that had horizontal guide lines drawn on it. If you look at the edges of the above pic, I rotated it slightly to adjust for the hill slope (the pic I posted yesterday is the same, but cropped). I used the tops of the rims as a leveling guide. Also, I checked with guide lines and your hood and rear deck slopes (in my adjusted pic) are a very close match to the slopes on the Duesey.
I also started the door swoop back farther, cut all but the bottom trim line off the door, and extended it rearward so the crossmember trim is over the 1x3.

Oh yeah, when I moved the rear deck up, I put the front part back to where it was in you original pic. So really, it's like I lifted the rear up and used the front as the pivot point. Basically, if you raise the tail up about 4" you'll have it.