1955 Ranch Wagon Cruiser

[DJ3100]

Here's my new clutch fitting set-up with a bleed screw at the very top.

So far there is no pedal, it moves with no resistance. The internal hydraulic Throw Out Bearing does not even twitch.

I have:
1. Pushed fluid with my reverse bleeder into the upper and lower bleed screws.
2. Pulled a vacuum on the upper bleed screw - trying to pull any air out of the TOB. Did this both with the pedal depressed and not depressed.
3. Pedal bleed - open bleed screw - pedal down; close BS - pedal up. Maybe 50 times. Plenty of fluid moves out of the BS and no air.
4. Done #3 from the bottom BS.
5. Depressed the pedal to close the MC port and pushed fluid into both BS's.
6. Pulled a vacuum on the master through the reservoir.
7. Checked for leaks including checking the TOB. Haven't found any.

There has to be a lot of air left in the system or there is a high (or medium) pressure internal by-pass (leak) in the master.

Ideas?

 

[Old Iron]

On all 4 of these that I've done, I had to pump the clutch pedal like a mad man on speed and after around 10 plunges to the floorboard, I started getting pedal and could then bleed the system the regular way.
First time I found this out I was so pi$$ed I just started stomping the pedal and I didn't care if I fubared the system.
This has worked every time with no consequences

 

[akatao]

if that don't work bad master

 

[jfg455]

Pump a bunch of times quickly (7-10) then hold pedal down and open the bleed screw. Close screw and repeat. This will push the air out of the slave / throw out bearing. they can be a PITA sometimes but you need the pressure in the slave for it to bleed properly. [P

 

[DJ3100]

On all 4 of these that I've done, I had to pump the clutch pedal like a mad man on speed and after around 10 plunges to the floorboard, I started getting pedal and could then bleed the system the regular way.
First time I found this out I was so pi$$ed I just started stomping the pedal and I didn't care if I fubared the system.
This has worked every time with no consequences

Pump a bunch of times quickly (7-10) then hold pedal down and open the bleed screw. Close screw and repeat. This will push the air out of the slave / throw out bearing. they can be a PITA sometimes but you need the pressure in the slave for it to bleed properly. [P

Thanks Old Iron and JFG, I'll give that a try.

if that don't work bad master

Thanks for the back-up, I ordered a new, different style MC yesterday. I'm not too excited about changing it out though.

 

[DJ3100]

More Clutch

I followed JFG455's instructions and after about 5 tries I began to get some resistance on the pedal (thought I'd done that before, but?). Each time the pedal resistance moved up a bit, until ..... it didn't.

I decided to check out what was happening underneath. Brake fluid was dripping out of the bell housing. Not sure why, the fittings weren't leaking. I suspect the bearing over traveled. But it doesn't matter why, brake fluid isn't compatible with a clutch.

A couple weeks ago I chased down the parts I'd need to convert to an external slave. I would have to design (borrow ideas from the internet) and build the slave mount. So, I had decided to stay the course with the internal slave.

Today I pulled the trans, removed the internal slave, installed the clutch fork and throwout bearing and somehow managed to get it all back together.

Still need to build the slave mount, but bleeding it will be a lot easier.

Never, ever will I try use an internal slave again.

 

[Bamamav]

External slave is the only way I'd go. Adapted a Toyota pickup slave to a Saginaw trans years ago, worked great, easy to bleed.

 

[DJ3100]

External slave is the only way I'd go. Adapted a Toyota pickup slave to a Saginaw trans years ago, worked great, easy to bleed.

Yeah, I have used the external slaves twice - on the 3100 and on the F2stang. They are both still working well without any maintenance.

Most of the problems I'm having with the clutch and the internal slave, revolve around the decision to use the Ford trans with the Chevy engine.

 

[earthman]

I can't handle the frustration of having to rework anything that is difficult
to get to. Getting the slave cyl out in the open is sure to be helpful.

 

[I-R-POPS]

You have had more than your share of trials lately.
Hang in there, careful and don't hurt the paint job.

 

[DJ3100]

I can't handle the frustration of having to rework anything that is difficult
to get to. Getting the slave cyl out in the open is sure to be helpful.

Yeah, it took me less than 30 seconds to decide to get rid of that internal slave when I saw fluid dripping out of the bell housing.

You have had more than your share of trials lately.
Hang in there, careful and don't hurt the paint job.

Hanging in there is getting tough. Every day I think "I could be driving it today" -but it's getting hard to believe it any more. Brake fluid and paint is extremely stressful.

The latest trials all come back to one moneysaving decision - I should have spent the extra $1000 or $1500 on a GM transmission instead of trying to make the Ford trans work behind the Chevy motor.

 

[DJ3100]

Clutch slave and bracket

The slave is Autozone pn 11887, 84-95 Toyota 4 Runner. I had another slave with a longer shaft so I swapped shafts. These push type slaves don't have a stop, so if you pump too much fluid in the piston will come out of the housing. Sizing the master with the slave is important. I made a stop for the clutch pedal, so I'll be able to sneak up on the travel limit.

The bracket is similar to some I saw on line, but with clearance for the body.

I needed a socket for the slave push rod to fit into. A 3/8" socket head cap screw seemed to be about the right size. I used a 3/8 diameter ball nose carbide burr to round the socket and put a radius in the bottom. This mounts in the clutch fork and allows for some adjustment.

A lot of installs I saw had a return spring to hold the throw out bearing away from the pressure plate fingers.

Haven't put fluid in it yet, so I don't know for sure that it will work.

 

[Old Iron]

You'll be much happier with the external slave.

 

[DJ3100]

With the external slave at least I know I can make it work one way or another.

As said before I got the TOB and clutch fork a while ago and test fit it when the trans was out waiting for the pressure plate. There is a ball stud on the passenger side of the bell housing with a lot of adjustment. I couldn't tell where it needed to be, so I set it in the middle. Turns out it could (should?) have been farther forward. The fork is for a cable actuated clutch and was too long to clear the body and header, so I cut off a couple inches (photo 1).

Photo 2 shows an alignment problem with the slave to the clutch fork. To get all the travel and force the push needs to be straight not at an angle. Photo 3 shows my solution. I will still have a little adjustment with the socket head cap screw. The angle of the block was a compromise between the engaged and disengaged positions.

 

[DJ3100]

To figure out how much travel was needed to disengage the clutch, I used a ratchet strap to pull it until I could turn the engine without the wheels moving. I needed about 7/8". I wasn't sure how much travel the slave had, so I took it off and measured. It has a stroke of 1.4" and a bore of .810". My master has a volume of .61 cu inches which calculates to a max slave movement of 1.18".

So, it should work. But I was getting 5/8" - 3/4" of an inch travel. Took a while to figure it out - well it took some brake fluid dripping on my forehead - but I had a leak. Fixed that and now I have about 1.12" of travel. I think it works.

Haven't started it yet. Starting it is what got me in this mess to begin with. I think I'll wait a while longer just to keep my hopes up.

 

[Old Iron]

I knew you'd get it whipped [cl
[P[P[P

 

[Torchie]

[P [P [P
You'll get there.
Torchie

 

[bruno]

After reading all of this I am not going to use the hydraulic throw out bearing I bought. Going to buy the set up that Novak sells. Seems like the thing to do because if mine were to leak I would have to pull the engine to get to it.

Glad you got yours figured out, helped me from making a big mistake.

 

[DJ3100]

After reading all of this I am not going to use the hydraulic throw out bearing I bought. Going to buy the set up that Novak sells. Seems like the thing to do because if mine were to leak I would have to pull the engine to get to it.

Glad you got yours figured out, helped me from making a big mistake.

I'm glad it helped you out.

The internal slaves do work, usually. Seems like most people just install them and go about driving. Mine went south from the beginning partly because of an incompatible clutch, but mostly because I didn't know what I was doing.

The thing I am sure of is that a person can always get an external slave to work without having to remove the engine or trans.

Weird that Willwood does not make a pusher slave. The aftermarket slaves sell for as much as $200, I have seen OEM slaves for as little as $3.59. Most are $12.00 to $20.00. I got the Toyota slave at Autozone - it was in stock at the store for $12.99.

I had about a day in making the bracket. Novak's stuff is bolt-in for the application (of course, not my application). Way less goofing around and time involved.

 

[Old Iron]

After 3 internal slaves on my 33 Pontiac and 2 on Jacky's 51, I finally got one to stay.
On Peabody's, I used a external slave and master for a S10, tada !!!!!
Never again will I use an internal.