50s Ford F1 Build

[05snopro440]

Thanks for all the input guys, I'm going to throw the seat in again and sit in it to make sure everything feels right and that the chest to wheel distance is similar to what my car has as well... It just really looked weird moving it over that far, because of the cab being so tapered from back to front...

The plan is a 13" wheel, with a cardboard assisted template it didnt look too small, and gives me some knee room as well.

I'm thinking under launch, the motor should rock away from the steering shaft, so I can probably move it back a little to the center of the cab which puts the steering shaft closer to the head... hmmm

I'll try to snap some pics too.

My cab is narrower than yours, but I moved my wheel out towards the door a lot from where it was originally. With mine, the original position sat you almost in the middle of the cab. My column location now with a modern bench seat sits me exactly where I want to in the seat, and in relation to the rest of the truck. Just because the column was in one place when new doesn't mean you want it there now, 60 years later. You might find that being closer to the door is what you want, so your plan to put the seat in and check is smart.

The motor will torque "up" on the driver's side, but I'm not sure how this makes a difference to your steering shaft placement? Maybe a pic would help...

 

[Dirtyrat]

My cab is narrower than yours, but I moved my wheel out towards the door a lot from where it was originally. With mine, the original position sat you almost in the middle of the cab. My column location now with a modern bench seat sits me exactly where I want to in the seat, and in relation to the rest of the truck. Just because the column was in one place when new doesn't mean you want it there now, 60 years later. You might find that being closer to the door is what you want, so your plan to put the seat in and check is smart.

The motor will torque "up" on the driver's side, but I'm not sure how this makes a difference to your steering shaft placement? Maybe a pic would help...

Agreed, I guess I was worried about it looking way out of place being that far over, but I guess it will look how it looks, I want it functional...

If the motor rotates Clockwise from looking at the front of it, would it not "torque up" to the passenger side? Reason I was thinking about it, was I would need less clearance between the steering shaft and the engine if that were the case...

 

[05snopro440]

Agreed, I guess I was worried about it looking way out of place being that far over, but I guess it will look how it looks, I want it functional...

If the motor rotates Clockwise from looking at the front of it, would it not "torque up" to the passenger side? Reason I was thinking about it, was I would need less clearance between the steering shaft and the engine if that were the case...

This video shows a Pontiac V8 revving. Notice it torques counter-clockwise (when facing it). I didn't catch what you're running for an engine, but it should be the same...?

All my V8's torque that direction. What I don't get is why that will change the clearance you need for your steering shaft? You should want decent clearance whether the engine is running or not, and if your engine moves enough to change the clearance considerably, there could be something else wrong. I guess I'm just not understanding why it makes a difference whether the engine is on power or not when you're setting clearances?

 

[8literbeater]

This video shows a Pontiac V8 revving. Notice it torques counter-clockwise (when facing it). I didn't catch what you're running for an engine, but it should be the same...?

All my V8's torque that direction. What I don't get is why that will change the clearance you need for your steering shaft? You should want decent clearance whether the engine is running or not, and if your engine moves enough to change the clearance considerably, there could be something else wrong. I guess I'm just not understanding why it makes a difference whether the engine is on power or not when you're setting clearances?

All United States engines turn the same direction, therefore they rock the same direction under load.
What Dirtyrat is saying, is that if the engine torques away from the steering shaft, he could probably run it as close as a quarter inch or so, and the engine will get farther away under load. IF it torqued the other way, he'd need more clearance, because it would get closer under load, and maybe touch. That's why the clearance matters based on engine torque direction and amount.

 

[gold03]

Think of how many cars you have seen lift one front tire. Drivers front tire. See this video. Its same rotation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2diDWSxvUTA

I broke an engine mount once. Drivers side of the engine would lift and rotate up under load.

Go tight to your driver side exhaust... if we are wrong, you gotta do it over...

I love those seats Dr. I hope that is the colour scheme for the car.

 

[Dirtyrat]

Think of how many cars you have seen lift one front tire. Drivers front tire. See this video. Its same rotation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2diDWSxvUTA

I broke an engine mount once. Drivers side of the engine would lift and rotate up under load.

Go tight to your driver side exhaust... if we are wrong, you gotta do it over...

I love those seats Dr. I hope that is the colour scheme for the car.

Thanks Gold, yea the interior is going with the 50s/60s colors like the T-bird had, the outside I thnk will be silver and black, maybe a hint of the deep red somewhere on the fins possibly..

All United States engines turn the same direction, therefore they rock the same direction under load.
What Dirtyrat is saying, is that if the engine torques away from the steering shaft, he could probably run it as close as a quarter inch or so, and the engine will get farther away under load. IF it torqued the other way, he'd need more clearance, because it would get closer under load, and maybe touch. That's why the clearance matters based on engine torque direction and amount.

This is EXACTLY what I am getting at. I like to have at least an inch clearance with running stock mounts because coming off throttle will rock the motor back toward the driver's side as well (soft rubber mounts). Thanks for helping me clarify what I could not put into words!

 

[05snopro440]

Thanks Gold, yea the interior is going with the 50s/60s colors like the T-bird had, the outside I thnk will be silver and black, maybe a hint of the deep red somewhere on the fins possibly..



This is EXACTLY what I am getting at. I like to have at least an inch clearance with running stock mounts because coming off throttle will rock the motor back toward the driver's side as well (soft rubber mounts). Thanks for helping me clarify what I could not put into words!

With the wider cab you should have room for the inch of clearance. I surely didn't, but I have no problem with steering shaft clearance at any time, even with all the torque mine makes. I don't know how much clearance I have off hand, but it's not much...

 

[MercuryMac]

There is no doubt in my mind that the motor will torque-up and rise on the driver side and lean slightly to the passenger side. If you are holding onto a floor gearshift when you are making your getaway you will find the gearshift leaning away from you; the weaker your motor mounts, the more it will lean away. Conversely, if you step on the clutch while using your big torque the motor will flop back past where it usually sits. I don't mean to scare you DR. as you will never be in the same circumstances. I was reminiscing about my old dual-wheeled ratrod with a pretty torquey 410 FE motor with motor mounts approaching 50 years old and the whole shootin' match pulling a frequently overloaded triple axle trailer.
If you have a little steering column clearance and good mounts you should be good.
I'm cheering for you using the biggest steering wheel you possibly can, I don't know how much finger clearance you need, though. Clearance is secondary to Coolness, right?

 

[Dirtyrat]

There is no doubt in my mind that the motor will torque-up and rise on the driver side and lean slightly to the passenger side. If you are holding onto a floor gearshift when you are making your getaway you will find the gearshift leaning away from you; the weaker your motor mounts, the more it will lean away. Conversely, if you step on the clutch while using your big torque the motor will flop back past where it usually sits. I don't mean to scare you DR. as you will never be in the same circumstances. I was reminiscing about my old dual-wheeled ratrod with a pretty torquey 410 FE motor with motor mounts approaching 50 years old and the whole shootin' match pulling a frequently overloaded triple axle trailer.
If you have a little steering column clearance and good mounts you should be good.
I'm cheering for you using the biggest steering wheel you possibly can, I don't know how much finger clearance you need, though. Clearance is secondary to Coolness, right?

Thats great! [cl[cl
Well, with power steering I think a 13" wheel will suffice, and still give me a few inches of clearance to the door skin area... I scored a black Grant GT 3 spoke off ebay for $40 shipped with the adapter and horn button... I'll be painting the spokes deep red, and probably put an off white leather-ish cover on it to match the seats...

This rat is an automatic, the next one I do will be a manual trans...

 

[05snopro440]

BTW what engine are you using now? You changed from your original Hemi plans?

 

[Dirtyrat]

BTW what engine are you using now? You changed from your original Hemi plans?

5.4 SOHC Ford motor (2010 E250 engine, trans, harness, and propane system donor)

 

[05snopro440]

5.4 SOHC Ford motor (2010 E250 engine, trans, harness, and propane system donor)

That's definitely a unique powertrain!

What happened to the Hemi? Were you just wanting to run propane?

 

[Dirtyrat]

That's definitely a unique powertrain!

What happened to the Hemi? Were you just wanting to run propane?

After looking at the cost to rebuild it, add the adapter and other go fast parts, as well as seeing like 3/5 cars at some of the shows all having Hemi's I decided I wanted something totally different... I get really sick of seeing the same kinds of builds over and over...

 

[05snopro440]

After looking at the cost to rebuild it, add the adapter and other go fast parts, as well as seeing like 3/5 cars at some of the shows all having Hemi's I decided I wanted something totally different... I get really sick of seeing the same kinds of builds over and over...

You and me both. I definitely get that.

Those old Hemi's look cool, but they're getting so common it almost defeats the purpose behind using one to begin with.

 

[Dirtyrat]

Minor update, I did get my toyota steering shaft, and it will work with the fiero steering shaft, both are 3/4DD on the inner, nad 1"DD on the outer areas... I'll probably move the steering box a little forward and up so I have some room for collapse, just have to figure out how to re-do the nylon areas that allow for collapse... maybe a couple set screws or something...

Anyhow, I noticed I'm going to have to put a bend in the drag link to clear the left wheel on a left turn, but that is not a huge deal as I have yet to fab that piece...

I took some time off the rat to build a crossmember for my cousin's 440 6 speed trans swap in his mid 80s 1/2 ton truck... (I'm sure next will be boxing the tin foil frame)

 

[Dirtyrat]

Steering box and steering shaft mock up... making progress

As I posted in the Q&A section, I'm pondering the drag link and putting an offset in it to clear the tire at full lock on a left turn, as well as make the pivot ball on the steering arm line up with the pivot ball on the pitman arm.

Anyhow on to the pics, I'm pretty happy so far with the setup I think...[S
I still need to find center on the steering box, but i'm not too far off at this position I don't think.

 

[gold03]

Hey DR, if the ball stud isn't final welded into the pitman arm se if you can run it in board. Then you won't need the offset. Maybe...

 

[Dirtyrat]

Hey DR, if the ball stud isn't final welded into the pitman arm se if you can run it in board. Then you won't need the offset. Maybe...

I'll have to have a look, I assume its already welded since it was the conversion pitman arm from CPP... I may still do that, I can mill off the weld and flip it around possibly, thanks for the idea!

 

[I-R-POPS]

If you operate like I do, you'll change things up 4 or 5 times before it suits you.
Stay after it and don't weaken. It's looking great.

 

[Dirtyrat]

If you operate like I do, you'll change things up 4 or 5 times before it suits you.
Stay after it and don't weaken. It's looking great.

Thanks Pops! I appreciate it!
I'm trying to keep moving forward, I REALLY want this thing on the road even if its not 100% done, it will be driving soon!