Bound and Determined ... THIS time.

[RickBright]

If the looks of an IFS front end does not scare you have you thought about getting a complete late 40's early 50's pickup and picking up a running mid 90's Dakota or S-10 with a close to matching wheelbase and putting the old truck body or cab on the running driving stopping chassis? Lots of S-10's with 350's or a 3.9 Dakota would work. Most of the engineering already figured out. No need to have to figure drive line angles, brakes, install axles, core support/radiator, make up drive shafts fab motor/transmission mounts and a bunch of other work.

I recently picked up a good running extended cab GMC S-15 with a 350/700R4 for $500. Mechanics are good truck cab was bad. I am looking for an early to mid 1950's long bed International to put on the chassis. I will put the International front clip and bed on as I just cannot get past the open front end with a non straight axle but that's just me.... Going to go with a S-10 or S-15 4 wheel drive rear axle (wider than the 2 wheel)

Doing something like this I would think a few weekends and you could be driving and enjoying the truck. Just my thoughts and probably not worth much

Rick

 

[AZRodDave]

Yeah Rick, I have thought of that, and if I had a boat-load of cash (even a small one!) I'd go that route, but have to work with what I have, being poor and retired.

I bought the cab for $400 and am net at about $100 on this chassis. Paid $40 for the dually rear end (a full floater from an '81 Chevy extra cab one ton) and the engine and trans were virtually free, since my buddy gave me the old rusty trusty Suburban donor.

I think I can live with the look of the front end for now. It's kind of classic in a way, and I am getting used to it and overcoming "the big dream" of wanting the suicide look up front. That can come later (and may on that '59 Chevy if it is still here after I get this one going).

The idea, as many have suggested, is to get one done and then try for "the dream" on another. That way I have a toy to drive and another in the works, and get one under my belt and then move on. That is the wisdom of this group which has a whole of more experience at this than I. Guess I needed that slap up side the head to face facts and get a grip! No problem with that. It's the right thing to do!

 

[smallfoot]

I think the only thing that's holding you up is confidence. That's probably one reason why people are suggesting getting into a project that would be more simple. Once you get one done, it will give you a boost...."hey, I can do this" kinda thoughts. I was taught by example on learning mechanics by my Pop and other relatives and friends along the way. One of the most useful thoughts ever conveyed to me was by my neighbor. He told me that you won't learn anything unless you just go ahead and try it. You'll succeed or fail, if you fail, you'll do it over until you succeed. My Pop showed me the importance of the information needed to get it right. At that time, books were where you got the info. Nowadays, you have books and manuals for everything and the net, which with proper searching, you can find the info. And don't forget this group of friends which can probably lead you along thru any problems that you come up with. Talk about how many ways you can skin a cat? I think you'll find there's more ways to build a rat...

 

[RickBright]

Get a notebook. Break the build down and write down each part,task or component of the build as a separate page. Try to list in the order of the build. Does not have to be super accurate or descriptive. Each page becomes a step or goal to accomplish. You read about a tip on something go to that page and write it down.

Think about the big picture (finished running truck) but concentrate on each page. Take notes on each page, scribble write down your thoughts, part numbers so forth and when your finished you have a build record of everything you did. Does not have to be a rigid plan but it will give you small victories that will help to see you thru.

Rick

 

[AZRodDave]

Wish I'd had a Pop like that ...

I think the only thing that's holding you up is confidence. That's probably one reason why people are suggesting getting into a project that would be more simple. Once you get one done, it will give you a boost...."hey, I can do this" kinda thoughts. I was taught by example on learning mechanics by my Pop and other relatives and friends along the way. One of the most useful thoughts ever conveyed to me was by my neighbor. He told me that you won't learn anything unless you just go ahead and try it. You'll succeed or fail, if you fail, you'll do it over until you succeed. My Pop showed me the importance of the information needed to get it right. At that time, books were where you got the info. Nowadays, you have books and manuals for everything and the net, which with proper searching, you can find the info. And don't forget this group of friends which can probably lead you along thru any problems that you come up with. Talk about how many ways you can skin a cat? I think you'll find there's more ways to build a rat...

You are spot on, smallfoot. I never had that kind of guidance or support. You are really lucky to have grown up like that, and I envy you. Can't fault the old man, he was raised the same way, so doesn't know any better, but things sure could have been different and a whole lot better. Anything I have learned or accomplished over the years, I have had to do myself. That has its own rewards, but is the hard and slow way. {enough whining}

When I was into Miatas, I had a group of friends into the same, so we all helped each other out. They have no interest in hot rods or ratty things, so I'm back on my own again, trying to learn new things and trying to absorb as much as possible from this site and the expert workmanship and skills on display. It's a bit intimidating at times, but as you say, just have to get in there and give it a try, and KEEP trying, and I will.

----------------------

I like the notebook idea, Rick! It's often hard to keep things straight in this scatterbrain of mine, so writing it down and keeping a record sounds like a great idea, then go step-by-step and have a sense of accomplishment and progress which will really help. Good idea, and thanks!

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Last night I got the springs off the original rear end and can see that the first challenge is going to be how to attach them to the modern dually axle. The u-bolts on the original attached into slots on the axle and the dually has flat tabs (I guess you would call them) where the spring sits, and I assume it had longer u-bolts with a cradle underneath to hold it in place. Luckily I have other trucks to look at and compare, and the internet and my RRR friends, so will get that figured out.

Question: Why do manufacturers use shackles on the rear spring mount? Are they necessary, and should I re-use that method? Thanks in advance...

 

[Bamamav]

When a leaf spring compresses, it grows longer, so you have to have the shackle to allow the spring to grow, or flatten out. With solid mounts on both ends, the spring couldn't compress, and would simply be mounted solid.

 

[AZRodDave]

When a leaf spring compresses, it grows longer, so you have to have the shackle to allow the spring to grow, or flatten out. With solid mounts on both ends, the spring couldn't compress, and would simply be mounted solid.

Okay, thanks Bama!

 

[Willowbilly3]

My dad was an old cowboy and zero help. It didn't stop me from being a gearhead and building my first jitney when I was 15. I tore a lot of crap apart that never got put back together and had to re-engineer a lot of ideas. It's all part of the process. I tried to put the rear end in with redi-bolt and 2x4s.
A couple of my observations, one is this: A mechanic can fix cars, fix up cars and all that but the stuff we do and what you want to do is way beyond any interest in mechanics, it's a lot of engineering. Us old guys didn't have internet to run to so we had to hammer things out on our own. And I'll admit I left behind dozens of halfbaked cars, few ever got done. Part of that is because I was a fart in a frying pan, drag one home, fiddle with it then something else would come along I had some pie in the sky wet dream about. I've had as many as a dozen cars around and spread too thin to put any real money into any of them.
Pick one you like, focus on it and vow to stay the course until it's done and not drag anything else home unless it's a good donor or you have a plan to flip it quick for profit. Get rid of all that other crap and left behind projects, they are just distractions. More than parts and ideas, it takes resolve and focus to build a car.

 

[AZRodDave]

You're a better man than I McDuff. I mean WB. Also good advice I wish I had heard back in October! Well, actually I did, just didn't heed it. Another learn-by-making-mistakes situation. I have everything up for sale on CL, just nothing moving, which is okay for having the next one in line...

I surveyed the '94 Chevy chassis I have left over, and that one has the springs, shackles, u-bolts and even the drive shaft in tact. In the theme of K.I.S.S., it looks much easier to use that one on this project and save the dually for the '59 once I get to it.

Focusing on THIS one FIRST - get it running and driving and enjoy it !!! That is the plan.

 

[AZRodDave]

And so, why not just use that chassis? I tried it once; sat too high for my liking:

Then again, they make lowering kits for the front end, which would help. It also needs rebuild, which means spending even more money. I am going to have to do some investigating and compare costs with what the '54 car chassis needs and what other parts I can think of that will be needed. Time for that notebook ...

And so you say "there he goes again." Have to go the cheapest way possible unless the money tree starts blooming again, but I am afraid it is dead ... Most likely use the '54 car chassis with that rear.

 

[MercuryMac]

AZDave, You might envy me for a while when I tell you that my Dad could really build stuff and teach me things, but he intimidated me, unknowingly, because he was so handy. One of the things he taught me was how to handle looking up that far to people. I had to figure out that he had many more years of experience than me and that I would catch up. Well, there are guys on this forum with a ton of experience and they are handy, so it's OK to envy them a wee bit, but mostly you should watch and learn from them. That's what I do, and it gives me confidence to try more stuff. My Dad taught me to look into the future and see what's coming and to set yourself a direction and stick to that direction. I see people around me that buzz around expending energy, dust flying, lot's of noise, working like mad, but in twenty seven different directions and they end up nowhere. Don't let that be you; pick a direction, stick to it, even if you're just plodding along sometimes, and you'll get somewhere.

Sorry, Dave, that almost when into rant stage. I'll hold my tongue, now.

 

[AZRodDave]

No worries, Mac! I appreciate the comments and good advice, trust me.

I think I posted this once before, but my buddy Don is very clever and handy with getting things done on the cheap and easy. We built a Miata autocross car that was wicked fast, and until someone came along with an overbuilt Lotus Elan, we were the fastest out there. I was not intimidated at all, but marveled at his ideas sometimes, and even came up with some of my own that surprised him! It's always better working with a friend or two around, and I miss those days, but good memories all the same...

 

[AZRodDave]

Looks like using the '94 truck rear end on this chassis is going to be the cheapest and easiest way to go. It has a pair of rally rims on it and I have some fat tires for those or some 15x12 turbine rims. Won't lose much as far as the wider look in the rear. Won't have the dually, and that's okay keeping in mind the KISS and Gitterdone philosophy. The dually can go elsewhere (yes, I have an idea!), and wait for another day ... Off to work, it's finally cooling off!

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*Update: Still hot out, but got the rear end out of the '94 chassis, springs removed and under the project. Going to order a shackle kit and the front springs (biting the bullet on $). Completed.

I figure I'll try and do an hour or two every night or early morning since I seem to have become a night owl again. Pretty soon it will be too hot to be outside in the daytime anyway, so no harm. At least it will be progress!

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Another question, if I may: Should I mount the rear end above or below the springs? I think there is plenty of room to mount it on top (frame clearance), and I'll be putting on a taller and wider tire than was on the car originally. Just a thought ... the kind that keeps me awake at night.

 

[MercuryMac]

AZDave, the hardest part for me to learn was to be a little flexible while following my chosen direction. You have to be flexible. Picking an easier rear-end to install was being flexible within the same direction. Good call.
If you mount the rear-end on top of the springs and still have about 5" of room up to the frame you should be OK. I'm guessing two inches of vertical travel will disappear when all the weight of your back end is on the springs, so that will leave you with 3" of spring travel.
You will have to weld another spring perch on the bottom of the axle housings, though, but the six inch drop you gain will be worth it.
Keep on tinkering.

 

[AZRodDave]

Thanks Mac!

Yes, flexible AND practical sure is a lot easier! It looks a lot different, though. Another thing I might have to get used to? Big FAT tires would sure help. I'll have to find the turbine wheels and try them on one side for comparison. Hope that makes it look mean again and not like a big bubble sitting on carriage wheels. Some compromise I can deal with, but ...

Pretty sure there is going to be PLENTY of room for spring travel with the axle mounted on top of the springs. I'm not sure how much weight is going to be on the back yet, as the only thing planned so far is a gas tank and the battery, and even that is still "up in the air." I have a 10 gallon plastic fuel cell I could use, or the tank from the old Suburban that is probably 20 gallons and a lot heavier. It may get a simple box, or just a platform with tool box/trunk on it. We'll see ...

 

[AZRodDave]

Midnight Ramblin'

Test fitted the turbine wheels last night, and I think they will do nicely! They have some REALLY old Kelly tires on them, probably from the '70s I'd guess. Rims are 15 x 11 (measured at the bead, 12" wide overall) and downright ratty looking! Fits the "style" so to speak.

Waiting for shackle bushings (Eckler's are slow!), but also got to test fit the axle and stock springs (springs on top). The chassis sits level like that, with the current front tires and the Kelly rears, so might go that way. I guess it depends on the rear tire size. I can certainly go taller in the back and then could put the axle on top of the springs. Looks like there is plenty of room.

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Tweaked my bum knee, so won't be doing much for the next few days. Dang...

 

[I-R-POPS]

One step at a time.
Keep beatin on it.

 

[AZRodDave]

One step at a time.
Keep beatin on it.

I will, Pops. Parts shipped yesterday, due to arrive Tuesday. Hooray!

Did some imagineering last night with rear ride height and spring/axle configuration. Kind of hard to tell, but looks like it will sit too high either way!? Lots of clearance, though. Should know more once there is weight on it and parts in place!

 

[21willys]

Go with the axle on top of the leafs then you can use lowering blocks. It's not the best way to do it but it's the quickest and easiest.

 

[05snopro440]

Go with the axle on top of the leafs then you can use lowering blocks. It's not the best way to do it but it's the quickest and easiest.

Why isn't it the best way? Axle on top works great.