COE wide track width

[OddTodd]

Newbie here looking for some chassis advice.
I'm in the very early planning stages of a COE build. I'm not ready to let the cat out of the bag just yet on what the cab is though.
The cab is really wide at 95"
I would like to have an air bagged IFS under the cab, not a beam style solid axle. The diesel engine will not be under the cab, it will instead be behind the cab. I was looking at getting a GM P series widetrack chassis from a motorhome as a possible donor for the following reasons.
The wide track width
The correct steering box orientation
Some, I believe have 10 lugs
And I THOUGHT that they utilized the same IFS suspension components as the 1ton trucks of the same era, which the air bag kits are readily available for. After asking questions on an RV forum, I was told that they do not share the same components and that parts are very hard to come by.
Back to the drawing board.
My next option (which just might be better as it would gain me a badass drivetrain) a 2007-2010 2wd 1ton GM dually with Duramax & 6spd Allison. I would then have to buy aftermarket extended upper and lower control arms and a front facing rack and pinion.
The 3rd option would be to buy a custom front clip from Scott's Hot Rods. However, this option would cost as much as the aforementioned donor dually with drivetrain and kinda gets away from the ratrod spirit of things.

One more option that I was thinking about. This build is going to have a rectangular tubing frame that will be Zee'd front and rear to "lay frame" when the bags are emptied. I suppose that instead of welding the donor ifs frame to the front ends of the rectangular tubing, I could instead weld the donor ifs frame pieces to the outside of the rectangular tubing. Effectively spreading them apart.
I welcome any feedback, thoughts, ideas and experiences.

 

[gene49]

The smart people will be around soon.
I'm the dumb guy that just asks questions.

I'm curious, how much too narrow is the width of the 1 ton front suspension? Most 1 tons I've seen have a spacer attached to the rotor so they can use a standard duel tire wheel, with the tire set back in from the hub. If a guy could use a wheel off a non-duel 1 ton on the front and retain the spacer, you could effective move the tire/wheel outward at least a couple inches per side. Would that be wide enough? Then you could use all the 1 ton air bag stuff. You could still Z the 1 ton frame if you wanted, just need a bit more bracing at the splice.

Welcome aboard from the north west corner of Illinois.

 

[MercuryMac]

I, too, leaned towards measuring a one ton donor truck.

 

[OddTodd]

Thank you for the replies.

I would like to run 10 lug Alcoas or at the very least a phantom direct-bolt wheel that appears to be a 10 lug. I don't think a regular wheel would get me there.
The track width for a 2010 Chevrolet 3500 dually is 68.6" in the front. That's a lot narrower than a 95" wide cab

 

[kenny c]

I think using stock single wheels on a dual tire one ton front end would create problems. It would give too much leverage too far away from the normal pivot points of the ball joints and also not put the load in the center of the front wheel bearings. All that being said there a lot of guys running wide rims with a lot of offset on pickups. They wear things out pretty fast though. The other thing to consider is that track width is center line of tires and not overall width. You may want to measure potential donors before committing to anything.

 

[Bonehead]

It looks like adding width between a factory IFS system, might be your best option. Steering will be the harder part of the project.

 

[Old Iron]

I'm in on watching and following your build thread.

 

[OddTodd]

It looks like adding width between a factory IFS system, might be your best option. Steering will be the harder part of the project.

Been kinda pondering the same thing.
The factory crossmembers are made to have an engine mounted above them. I'm not needing that. So, perhaps I can just cut the factory crossmember out, spread the frame rails to where I need them and weld in new crossmembers made of square or rectangular tubing. The steering shouldn't be too difficult with a forward facing rack and pinion. Just have to make certain that the links pivot at the appropriate spot. (I think lol)

 

[OddTodd]

I sure wish I could justify buying one of these custom units

 

[OddTodd]

Changing the subject to the rear of the chassis...

OK so, the plan is a custom HD chassis, Zee'd front and rear using 3/16" wall 2x6 or 2x8 rectangular tubing.
In the rear, I'm undecided on which 4 link setup I want to use. I want this truck to be fully capable of towing heavy, yet still ride nice when not towing.
I am kicking around the idea of using 4 bags in the rear. I have seen that some of the HD setups like big trucks, medium duty trucks, motorhomes and some of the Kelderman setups use 4 bags per axle.
I'm thinking 4 smaller bags might be smoother than 2 bigger bags?
Perhaps utilizing 2 when empty, 4 when loaded down?
Anyone have opinions on the use of 4 bags on one rear axle vs. 2?
With 4 bags, one bag would be in front of and another behind the axle. Should I use a parallel 4 link with a wishbone or triangulated 4 link?
With 4 bags, should I use convoluted bags or tapered sleeve?
I have sourced a heavy duty axle truss with 3/8" plate steel on top to mount top links to. I have also sourced 2" x 1/4" wall link bars in either dom round or square tubing. All brackets will likely be 1/4" thick.
There's also the question of bushings vs. heavy duty (1-1/8" or 1-1/4") heim joints.

Thoughts and opinions welcome

 

[OddTodd]

I forgot to mention that the truck will not have a bed. So, there will be lots of room and everything should be easily accessible. So, as far as the plumbing for the 2 extra bags is concerned, it could be as simple as opening 2 small ball valves between the front and rear bags when towing. No complicated extra plumbing necessary.

 

[MercuryMac]

I was a trucker most of my life, but did not run air bags on the truck, but sometimes on the trailers. The scuttlebut around the coffee shops was that the four bags per axle was not well liked. I think it was just too much plumbing to go wrong, though. The big trucks and trailers had leveling valves on each axle, so the system was always adding or subtracting air to the bags. I don't think the hotrod systems work that way.

On your front end dilemma, I would like you to go back and remeasure that cabover width. 95 inches seems awfully wide.

 

[OddTodd]

I don't actually have a cab yet. I was basing the info from this document. Surely they aren't including the mirrors in that measurement, right?

 

[OddTodd]

Document

 

[MercuryMac]

I read and reread the spec sheet and think that the 95" is between the outsides of the fenders. Above that number is 80.8" front tread, which might be the middle of the tread to the middle of the other tread. If I'm right there could be a whole lot of front end choices for you.
Good luck.

 

[OddTodd]

That's the way I read it as well

What front end are you thinking?