No other like it.

[Bamamav]

Lots of those old horns were 6 volt positive ground. If it doesn't work one way, try it the opposite. My Lincoln horns look like those, and were 6V-, yet they work fine on 12V+. I have mine ran through a common Chevy horn relay that was part of my Speedway Motors wiring kit. Mine are LOUD! I only toot them, I never stay on them for more than a second or two to keep from possibly burning them out.

 

[8literbeater]

im running the old horn on mine.. which should be a 6 volt horn.. but I get nothing when I test it at 6 volts.. but it works on 12.. sounds all sorts of goofy but makes noise..

Whats your concern with running them at 12 volts? burn them out? (mine hasnt given out yet.. but only played with it a dozen or so times)

Yeah, I want them to be right, not just good enough. I'm kinda picky about some things.
My main concerns are burning out the electrical components, damaging the mechanical components like the diaphragms and points, and the tone/sound of the horns.

I was just looking around under there, and they're Autolite brand, and there's a number. Maybe I can find out if they're actually 12 or 6 volt.

 

[CORPO]

I think mine sounds goofy cause it's just not right not because of pushing 12 v to it. But maybe it is... But 6 volts gets me nothing... [S

But then again I can't say I know what it's supposed to sound like... Maybe I'll post up a video in my thread with the sound...

 

[earthman]

My experience has been 12v thru a 6v horn makes a really angry sounding squawk.

 

[8literbeater]

can't go too many posts without some pictures

The horns went down under the radiator.



I also made a baffle underneath to help airflow at higher speeds.



I expected from the beginning that there might be an airflow problem at road speeds. Now that I have tires that I can take on the highway, I found that it runs warmer up around 75 mph, when 105° out. I made the baffle underneath in an attempt to create a draw that would pull air from the bottom, instead of a scoop that would push air in the top. So far it's working okay.

Around town it still never goes over 175° even when it's hot outside, but when I pulled on the highway it was creeping up over 210°. Now with the baffle, it seems to be staying around 205°. As long as it stays there, it's fine with me.

Now the higher temps in high gear under boost, that's a different story... I'm pretty sure I've got that solved too, but I'll update when I thoroughly test it and have time to explain. Gotta run.

 

[8literbeater]

Here's something. I had the radiator off to do the horns and air baffle. I always stare in wonderment when I fill it back up with antifreeze and watch how fast it circulates.
Here's a video that shows the last bubbles clearing out. It's idling at about 600 RPM.

 

[8literbeater]

I'm leaving the horns alone for now. There's bigger fish to fry.
Speaking of frying: Now that I can build boost in high gear, I'm seeing a new realm of engine operation. When I'm running around 200° and the boost comes up to around 3-4 pounds, the pinging starts. I expected this. So, I finally hooked up the boost retarder that I made...

This module with 5 pins ******* the timing when the fifth pin is grounded.



I found a fitting in my bins, and threaded the inside of the male end to fit a pressure switch.



I put a fitting on the other end:



Then made a bracket:



Now I finally took the fuel pump off:



The wire comes out of the distributor, down to the switch, and from the other side of the switch, it grounds to the block. My manifold pressure line goes to the switch, then to the vacuum advance canister.

Under vacuum, the can adds 9°. When I hit 2 pounds of boost, the module pulls about 10° out. The odd thing is, at idle speed around 6-700 RPM, the module pulls about 16°, at 2000 RPM it pulls about 10°, and at 3000 RPM, it pulls about 7°.

In high gear, at wide open throttle, I hit 2 pounds of boost at about 1500 RPM. The timing *******, and I feel it lose a little power, but then it's putting a lot of combustion into the exhaust, and then the turbo really starts to spool up. It's sorta strange to get used to. In second and third gear, I can't feel it. I can hear it in the exhaust, and the exhaust temperature jumps up a few hundred degrees.

Having an oil-cooled turbo, means I have turbo-heated oil.
So; more throttle → more boost → later timing → hotter exhaust → even more boost → hotter oil → hotter engine → more prone to knock, etcetera.

 

[8literbeater]

The missing data is the air/fuel ratio. I don't know if it's right, I just know it runs okay.

Here's the mixture adjustment.



Well dandy. Does propane work like gasoline, where lean runs hot? I've heard the opposite is true. Is it running rich or lean? I don't know. A while back, I turned it one mark toward lean, and I lost about half of engine power. I turned it toward rich, and didn't notice anything. My mileage sucks, so I put it back where I started, right in the middle.

I went by a shop today and talked to a guy about running it on his dyno. That will probably happen next week sometime.

 

[DJ3100]

I don't think I followed most of that and I don't know squat, but:

I have always thought that propane was high octane (something like 100) which should help eliminate the pinging???

Are you saying you're running 7-10 degrees total advance? SBC's usually like 30+?

I'm interested in the dyno guy? Reasonable? The shop I talked to said it would be a minimum of $700 to dyno tune the '53. Obviously I didn't do that.

Saw you driving today. It looked straight - the wheels weren't wobbling - nothing fell off that I could see. Not even a puff of smoke exiting the stack. [cl[cl[cl

 

[8literbeater]

True, propane runs about 103 octane. That helps with pinging, but then the turbo is a factor in that too.

The only research that I can find in writing about the timing, is this ASTM book page. https://books.google.com/books?id=C...6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=propane octane 130&f=false It says to give it more timing to about 2000 RPM, then less after that. I have it topping out around 22 degrees, then the gizmo ******* 7-10 degrees under boost, depending on RPM. That puts it in the area of 14 degrees advanced at 3000 RPM.

The dyno guy has pretty good rates. I expect to get out for around $100, maybe less. I don't have to disassemble a carb and change jets or anything like that.

Dyno Rates

2 wheel drive
½ hour $60
1 hour $110
2 hours $105 per hour
3 to 4.9 hr $100 per hour
5 to 7.9 hr $90 per hour
8 hr or more $85 per hour

4 wheel drive / all wheel drive
½ hour $80
1 hour $130
2 hours $125 per hour
3 to 4.9 hr $120 per hour
5 to 7.9 hr $110 per hour
8 hr or more $105 per hour

Whoever told you $700 sounds like a good place to stay away from. I had my engine done a few years back, and it was $500. They had to do all the work, set it up, set up the distributor, go to the gas station for gas, re-jet it, adjust the valves, break it in and everything. It was worth it. From first pull to last it gained about 120 horsepower.

Not all chassis dynos are the same though. Some cost more to purchase and operate. I was looking at another place with a different dyno that charges $140 per hour. Maybe that's where you went, and they figured they needed 5 hours…

 

[DJ3100]

The dyno prices sound reasonable, even if it takes 2 hours. It will be interesting to see where you end up with the timing. That set-up is different than anything we normally read about.

I think you're right about the place I went to, except as I remember, they had a minimum of 5 hours. They normally work on high horsepower sand rails not stock small blocks.

 

[CORPO]

thanks for the updates.. i enjoyed the video of the coolant.. such a neat feature of your build

 

[8literbeater]

I forgot to mention that I weighed it a few weeks back. I got a new full tank of gas, then went just under a mile to the scale.

3,350 pounds

It holds 105 pounds of gas, so that's 3,245 empty.

It's going to the dyno today in about an hour. I plan to get the mixture and timing set right. The horsepower and torque specs will be a bonus.

 

[DJ3100]

Dyno results? Come on, we can't wait any longer.

 

[8literbeater]

I'm working on some excuses.

 

[8literbeater]

I'm working on getting the graph where I can post it here.

It made 138 horsepower and 275 torque, obviously at the wheels.
My tires weigh 83 pounds each, and the wheels are 90 pounds each. = 346 pounds.

The factory horsepower was 130 at the crank, as far as I can find. I'm happy with it.

I'm actually finding everything from 105 to 155 for HP. The only thing I've found for torque is 185 or 210. Maybe someone has better information for me on the stock engine with integral intake.

http://www.chuckschevytruckpages.com/enginespecs.html

 

[8literbeater]

 

[DJ3100]

Good torque - more than I was expecting and peaks at a usable rpm .

Interesting that they started the graph below 1500 rpms (where you actually drive it). Usually when you see one they start at 2500 (I'm convinced that's because the aftermarket manufacturers are embarrassed that their stuff kills the torque below 2500).

Were you able to tweek the mixing valve - or did you need to?

How much did it actually cost?

 

[8literbeater]

Yeah I wonder just how much torque it would make with more boost. The reason the torque stops climbing and dives right off after 2386 rpm, is because that's when the boost maxed out and the wastegate opened. That other little cliff at about 1630 rpm is when it hits 2 pounds of boost, and the timing *******. It costs 30 foot pounds of torque and 10 horsepower momentarily, but it keeps everything working at higher RPMs.

The peak torque is at 72 mph, but of course that's wide open. I did a couple of part-throttle runs too, but I don't have the graphs with me right now. The reason it starts at low rpm is because I was driving. The guy had me in the seat, and he started and stopped the machine, and helped watch numbers.

It was running a little lean at first. I richened it a little at a time until it lost power, then backed up to where it made the most. Supposedly LPG makes the most power at a ratio of 12.67 to 1. That's the reference line on the air/fuel graph. I'm running a little lean of that. It was about 14.5 when I started.

We moved the timing up a little and gained a little power without any bad things happening. It was only barely better, so it wasn't worth pushing it to the limit for another possible 3 hp. I also unplugged the fans and ran it hot to see if it would do anything screwy. It built boost sooner, that's about it.

I made 12 runs, and it cost $95. The only thing left to do would be to adjust plug gaps I think. Next step, a new cam, lifters, and springs. Hopefully in the next month or two.

Also, the missing number on that note is supposed to say the peak horsepower rpm = 3030.

 

[DJ3100]

Yeah I wonder just how much torque it would make with more boost. The reason the torque stops climbing and dives right off after 2386 rpm, is because that's when the boost maxed out and the wastegate opened. That other little cliff at about 1630 rpm is when it hits 2 pounds of boost, and the timing *******. It costs 30 foot pounds of torque and 10 horsepower momentarily, but it keeps everything working at higher RPMs.

The peak torque is at 72 mph, but of course that's wide open. I did a couple of part-throttle runs too, but I don't have the graphs with me right now. The reason it starts at low rpm is because I was driving. The guy had me in the seat, and he started and stopped the machine, and helped watch numbers.

It was running a little lean at first. I richened it a little at a time until it lost power, then backed up to where it made the most. Supposedly LPG makes the most power at a ratio of 12.67 to 1. That's the reference line on the air/fuel graph. I'm running a little lean of that. It was about 14.5 when I started.

We moved the timing up a little and gained a little power without any bad things happening. It was only barely better, so it wasn't worth pushing it to the limit for another possible 3 hp. I also unplugged the fans and ran it hot to see if it would do anything screwy. It built boost sooner, that's about it.

I made 12 runs, and it cost $95. The only thing left to do would be to adjust plug gaps I think. Next step, a new cam, lifters, and springs. Hopefully in the next month or two.

Also, the missing number on that note is supposed to say the peak horsepower rpm = 3030.

Can you feel the 1630 drop off - is it pretty big bog or hardly felt?

I think I am/was confused about the air/fuel number. I thought bigger was richer and you were leaving it a little rich to keep it running cooler. Why leave it lean?

I forgot the history on that engine - has it had a valve job? Do they make turbo cams for that engine?

$95 for 12 runs seems like a smokin' deal.