SHOTROD 1950ISH 5 window chevy truck

[joedoh]

I guess I dont understand, which isnt unlikely.

if the transfer case turns the front and rear driveshafts the same way, the front axle has to "reverse" the turn. so if you cant use a rear axle because it turns backwards, why not use a front axle with locked steering?

flipping upside down on the centerline wouldnt change anything about rotation of the driveshafts, it would just change where the oil sits in the case.

 

[05snopro440]

I guess I dont understand, which isnt unlikely.

if the transfer case turns the front and rear driveshafts the same way, the front axle has to "reverse" the turn. so if you cant use a rear axle because it turns backwards, why not use a front axle with locked steering?

flipping upside down on the centerline wouldnt change anything about rotation of the driveshafts, it would just change where the oil sits in the case.

If you take a 4wd truck and cut it in half (removing the rear diff and driveshaft), and drive it in 4 high what happens? The truck drives forwards. Basically what you're saying is taking that and turning it around so that it's driving the back of the truck. Because it's turned around, it drives backwards. A front diff doesn't "reverse" anything, in our example it just has the pinion gear on the opposite side of the ring gear. That's what happens when you flip the differential too. One more illustration and I'll stop hijacking the thread.

If we're looking at these from the front and both of these are in the rear of the car (and the pinion and ring are meshing at the front of the ring gear), the one on the left makes the car move backwards (front of tire rotates up) and the one on the right makes the car move forwards (front of tire rotates down). So whether you move the front axle to the rear or flip the axle side to side, you're changing the location of the ring gear related to the pinion gear (compared to centerline of the vehicle) and as a result you're changing the direction of movement of the vehicle. If you take a pen and put it against your finger and rotate it, pay attention to which way it's pulling your finger. Then put it on the other side rotating the same way and it pulls your finger the opposite direction.

Effectively the image I drew is what you would need for both front (left) and rear (right) differentials on a 4WD if you're looking at the driveshaft mounting surface.

Sorry for the hijacking.

 

[skull]

05snopro440'' hi jack the thread''


no problem, l am enjoying all the info, this is new territory to me and l am learning alot,

thanks guys, l hope my idea for the build works in reality as well as it does in my head.

Later

 

[soltz]

05snopro440 hi jack the thread:

no problem, l am enjoying all the info, this is new territory to me and l am learning alot,

thanks guys, l hope my idea for the build works in reality as well as it does in my head.

Later

I've had builds that did that and some that didn't

 

[Dr Crankenstein]

Just thinking out loud...

If you leave the motor in the traditional front/back orientation and move the transfer case up front, you could drive the t case from the crankshaft hub and maintain the proper rotation. The transfer case doesn't care if the input is behind the crankshaft or in front, it only needs to rotate is the same direction....

.

 

[skull]

lDEA

since it is looking like a V-drive is expensive and a lot of extra work to put in and a TC from the input of every one is complicated, 2 drive shafts whether l go with either one, logistics ect ect...

we(friends who help a lot) are kicking around a chevy truck arm suspension,
attach the motor and trans to the arms so they go up and down with the arms and short drive shaft 0R a double cardan drive shaft that goes from trans and bolts directly to the rear-end.

also puts the engine facing the correct direction and mid-engine may help it handle better than all that weight hanging off the rear.

HHMMMM, maybe use the 454 if l go with this plan[cl[cl[cl

crude mods to the pic for reference.


build a hot they said, it'll be fun they said

Later

 

[wendle]

When we build rear-engine rockcrawlers we cut the steering knuckles off the axles, flip the whole lot upside down and weld the knuckles back on.
Usually have to move the rear diff right to one side (one very short axle tube) to clear the engine/trans.

They end up slightly weaker as you are now driving off the coast side of the gearset.

Oiling can be interesting, it's better in some instances and worse in others, but usually OK...

 

[05snopro440]

Just thinking out loud...

If you leave the motor in the traditional front/back orientation and move the transfer case up front, you could drive the t case from the crankshaft hub and maintain the proper rotation. The transfer case doesn't care if the input is behind the crankshaft or in front, it only needs to rotate is the same direction....

.

Doc, I think you forgot about the transmission in this scenario. [S

since it is looking like a V-drive is expensive and a lot of extra work to put in and a TC from the input of every one is complicated, 2 drive shafts whether l go with either one, logistics ect ect...

we(friends who help a lot) are kicking around a chevy truck arm suspension,
attach the motor and trans to the arms so they go up and down with the arms and short drive shaft 0R a double cardan drive shaft that goes from trans and bolts directly to the rear-end.

also puts the engine facing the correct direction and mid-engine may help it handle better than all that weight hanging off the rear.

HHMMMM, maybe use the 454 if l go with this plan[cl[cl[cl

crude mods to the pic for reference.


build a hot they said, it'll be fun they said

Later

A V drive is really no difference in install than the divorced transfer case, but you're right that it's expensive.

The truck arm idea is definitely simpler and a lot cheaper. I'm curious how the ride of that setup works out.

A guy I know has a 38 Ford COE, it's on a Chevy half ton pickup frame and has the engine behind the cab. It works out quite well and has the regular parallel leaf rear suspension.

 

[Dr Crankenstein]

Doc, I think you forgot about the transmission in this scenario.

Shame on me. I had my head wrapped around the v-drive and/or transfer case turning 1:1...


.

 

[skull]

tank/rad

mock up the gas tank, a 18 gallon aluminum boat tank from my friends boat repair/yard.

3 row cross flow, l will have to put in a inline style water neck.

one or two electric fans.

Later

 

[Skip]

You got a buddy with a boat yard, and you can't jack a v-drive? [ddd What's up with that?
You'd have the weight sitting right over the differential, and you could do wheelies with a stock 283.

 

[joedoh]

i dont know how much those fancy inline water necks go for but I got a plastic one from a dodge dakota pickup at the local auto parts store, I think it even came with the cap.

 

[skull]

transfer case, decided on for ease of driving b4 l die

l got the p2O5 divorced transfer case on the way this week end[cl

so l have decided on using the TC and now am hard at work to figure out the inception of said plan to work.

l will run the engine/trans with the water pump (front) facing the cab, short driveshaft to TC then a driveshaft out to the rearend putting the TC out by the rear of the bed, that means running the yoke facing out toward the tailgate, basically turning the rearend backwards on the leaf springs to get the correct rotation.

the radiator will be mounted on a modified suburu brat roll cage behind the cab with electric fans, l will still be using the power steering by lengthening the hoses to connect to the pump.

exhaust, throttle cable and ton of little niggly thing to figure out.

BUT l am feeling better as at least now l have a direction to go[cl

Later

 

[lowbudget50]

Sounds like a solid plan

 

[05snopro440]

l got the p2O5 divorced transfer case on the way this week end[cl

so l have decided on using the TC and now am hard at work to figure out the inception of said plan to work.

l will run the engine/trans with the water pump (front) facing the cab, short driveshaft to TC then a driveshaft out to the rearend putting the TC out by the rear of the bed, that means running the yoke facing out toward the tailgate, basically turning the rearend backwards on the leaf springs to get the correct rotation.

the radiator will be mounted on a modified suburu brat roll cage behind the cab with electric fans, l will still be using the power steering by lengthening the hoses to connect to the pump.

exhaust, throttle cable and ton of little niggly thing to figure out.

BUT l am feeling better as at least now l have a direction to go[cl

Later

I strongly suggest you mock it up and figure out what direction the TC and therefore rear end will spin. This still sounds like it's going to go backwards... unless you use a front differential and lock out the steering.

Good luck. [P

 

[05snopro440]

i dont know how much those fancy inline water necks go for but I got a plastic one from a dodge dakota pickup at the local auto parts store, I think it even came with the cap.

My "fancy" inline aluminum water neck that I bought and didn't use was $20.

 

[TubularFab]

I have been pondering these same issues on the International I am finally starting to work on. I have drawn up jackshafts with chains, belts, transfer cases, and V-drives. But now I'm moving forward with everything conventional and a longer truck than I wanted. I have also thought about the drivetrain mounted to a suspension cradle with a super short coupling like a German rubber flex joint, but my engine and trans are SUPER heavy.

One idea that might be great for you that has not come up in this thread is the Tornonado / El Dorado tranny. Basically a turbo 400 with a chain drive so the tranny sits next to the engine... I just don't want an automatic in mine.

I just found this thread and read it through - been fun reading about the same issues I've run into!

 

[skull]

mock

mock up, check direction of travel, figure out how it all works.[

thanks for the input[cl

plan B, sell it all, buy a new Prius

Later

 

[soltz]

Oh Come On Skull

You wouldn't do that, would you[S

!!![P!!!

 

[skull]

figured

plan A-

motor & tranny facing toward the cab

rear-end driving it foreward is a clockwise rotation

put rear-end facing tail gate

transfer case placed at the end of the rear frame rails

the top & bottom yokes facing the cab

this configuration gives me the rear-end turning clockwise

making it easier to mount the moving parts so they all work together

that is the progress so far[

Later