48 fire truck roadster

[DJ3100]

Thanks. I saw a clip on Muscle Car about rebuilding calipers and thought it might save some money, but I like the idea of not messing with the rebuild.

Fleet Sales I think.

 

[DJ3100]

I weighed the rear axle one wheel at a time on my shop bathroom scales. One side was 285 the other 290. I previously weighed a wheel and tire - 100 pounds. So the axle is just under 400 pounds - much lighter than I had guessed.

600 pounds of un-sprung weight, maybe not all that far out of line - still won't be a road racer though.

 

[truckster]

Fleet Sales I think.

Fleet Sales it is. I knew it was something simple.

You can at least check them out and do a comparison again.

 

[DJ3100]

Went to track down the calipers. Fleet Sales in Mesa is no more.

So, I have been stressing over where to go to find them - don't want to pay a whole lot. Can't really get motivated to drive all over Phoenix in 115 degrees. Can't find anyone who has listings for P-40 chassis.

Googled the caliper casting number but that didn't yield much until I found the Bendix reman numbers. R55199 and L55200. Printed out the application list - there's over 500 vehicles on the list. Almost every Chevy truck from '88 - 2001 and quite a few Dodges. I think I can get them for less than $30 ea.

Maybe tomorrow.....

 

[Dirtyrat]

rockauto.com has them I assume...

 

[truckster]

That price sounds like what I remember from Fleet Sales a couple of years ago. Sorry to hear they went away. Good people.

 

[DJ3100]

I got the gas tank mounted. There are rubber strips glued to all the contact surfaces that isolate the tank from the frame and mounts.

My favorite philosopher, Earthman, said "You've got to give people something to look at". So I used a 2" Scotchbrite disc to put some interest in the stainless tank. The top will only show when the trunk is open and most of the sides will be covered by the wheels and exhaust.

The calipers are on the front axle. They were $22.00 each. I was able to get the stock rear hoses, but the fronts eluded us. I may have to get them made. The axle insists on living upside down. The straps sort of keep the wheels from flopping over.

I ordered the AN fittings and hose for the fuel lines, they should be here today. I'm going to keep the frame on the rotisserie until I get them and the brake lines mounted.

 

[earthman]

Good to see continuing progress Dan. Lopers on Country Club have a good selection of AN fittings.

 

[DJ3100]

I went to Loper's and spent $50 on a few fittings. Got home and found they weren't going to work, but they did lead me in the right direction (I hope). Looked up the parts I needed in the Speedway catalog. Speedway had the ones that Loper's didn't and Speedway was about half of Loper's price.

I also looked in Summit and they are priced close to Speedway. Summit has more brands, which makes the buying decision more difficult than Speedway.

 

[DJ3100]

Here's an update.

Got the axles back under the frame. I like the red link arms.

The fuel tank, pump, filter and shut off valve are plumbed. I used the Speedway Motors push-on AN fittings, thinking they would be easier to assemble than the braided stuff. I ended up making a fixture to push them on with the hydraulic press - my 150 pounds wasn't enough to get them seated. The driver's side hose from the tank has a kink that I'll need to address.

It takes every wrench you own to get the brake fittings together. I've got the check valves on both lines, a proportioning valve on the rear and a T for the stop light pressure switch. And a difficult hard line left that goes through the trans mount and inside the brake arm.

The brackets for securing the hoses to the axles took awhile. I found a T that swedges to hose with a 3/8 bolt hole for the front. I was already committed to the female fitting at the rear. I don't have the hoses from the calipers to the front axle yet, but the rear is done.

The Eastwood flaring tool is great -every fitting looks like a factory flare.

 

[Dirtyrat]

Wow, that looks really really good all painted up and put back together.

I have rolling chassis envy!

 

[earthman]

Beautiful!

 

[DJ3100]

Thanks guys.

I really wish I had a transmission and engine ready to go. I think I'll have to sell something - like a power hammer - before I can get the trans. I have 2 engines, I just need to figure out which one needs the least work - been putting that off too long.

 

[DJ3100]

700r4

I did a little research on the 700R4.

Tempe Transmission Factory, 1.5 miles from my house, will build a 700R4 good to 600 hp with the pressure lock-up switch replacing the solenoid operated lock-up. With the 2000 rpm stall converter it's $980. Will take a couple days to build.

They advertise extensively on Craig's List and he says they have built around 25 of these 700R4's for hot rodders.

A leap of faith is required no matter who builds it.

 

[jfg455]

I did a little research on the 700R4.

Tempe Transmission Factory, 1.5 miles from my house, will build a 700R4 good to 600 hp with the pressure lock-up switch replacing the solenoid operated lock-up. With the 2000 rpm stall converter it's $980. Will take a couple days to build.

They advertise extensively on Craig's List and he says they have built around 25 of these 700R4's for hot rodders.

A leap of faith is required no matter who builds it.

That seems very cheap for that level of trans. Ask for a parts list of what he upgrades. There should be stuff like an upgraded input housing (and if he says it is upgraded with a hardened input just remember the stock unit has a hardened input), billet servo (or corvette servo for the 2-4 band) coleen steels, up graded 2-4 band (some are wider), a beast sun shell and gear, Upgraded sprags with more dog teeth, a 5 pinion planetary (stock has 4), a reworked front pump with the newer style vanes (more of them, stronger hub) and if he says the machine the input drum for 9 clutches instead of 7 then stay away from it. to get the extra clutches in there they use thinner ones. problem is the thinner ones cannot take the heat and burn out quicker. same with a B&M shift kit. They work terrible on a 700R4. Use one from Superior. much better part throttle shift feel, has the ability to hold in 4th gear at wide open throttle (most will down shift to 3rd @ WOT). B&M's tend to be way to harsh part throttle. The constent shock with destroy the sprag in short order. If you are using a lock up converter then do yourself a favor and step up to a 2600 - 3000 stall. it will work better off the line but you still have the lock up so you can cruise without the converter slipping. Best of both worlds. an 1800-2000 converter is basically a stock camaro unit. corvettes were stock with a 2400 (highest stock unit for the 700R4) Stock rebuilt 700R4's here are $1000-$1300 one that takes an honest 600HP is $2900 - $3200. Hope this helps. just my $.02

 

[Bonehead]

It sure is looking good. Power hammer huh? I could use one of those....

 

[DJ3100]

Engine

You may recall I got 2 454's from Truckster in the deal. One was a 1980 in a 1 ton that Truckster drove home, but it had a miss. I traced the miss to a broken lifter. Truckster was told it had been rebuilt 5000 miles ago.

Engine 2 is a '98 with 90,000 miles. The owner was going to put it in a Ford, but gave up and sold it to Truckster.

I pulled the heads off engine 1. There no cross hatching evident, but no scoring or ridge. There is a huge amount of carbon built up on the pistons, valves and chambers. Don't know if it was running rich or burning oil. But for sure the rebuild was more like 50,000 miles ago than 5000. The pistons are marked +.060 and the bores measure 4.310.

So I'm going with engine 2. I'm going to clean and paint the outside, swap the EFI for the tunnel ram and put it in the frame pretending I know it's going to run. If I decide on the tranny and can find the correct flexplate - I could have it in place in a week....right.

 

[DJ3100]

That seems very cheap for that level of trans. Ask for a parts list of what he upgrades. There should be stuff like an upgraded input housing (and if he says it is upgraded with a hardened input just remember the stock unit has a hardened input), billet servo (or corvette servo for the 2-4 band) coleen steels, up graded 2-4 band (some are wider), a beast sun shell and gear, Upgraded sprags with more dog teeth, a 5 pinion planetary (stock has 4), a reworked front pump with the newer style vanes (more of them, stronger hub) and if he says the machine the input drum for 9 clutches instead of 7 then stay away from it. to get the extra clutches in there they use thinner ones. problem is the thinner ones cannot take the heat and burn out quicker. same with a B&M shift kit. They work terrible on a 700R4. Use one from Superior. much better part throttle shift feel, has the ability to hold in 4th gear at wide open throttle (most will down shift to 3rd @ WOT). B&M's tend to be way to harsh part throttle. The constent shock with destroy the sprag in short order. If you are using a lock up converter then do yourself a favor and step up to a 2600 - 3000 stall. it will work better off the line but you still have the lock up so you can cruise without the converter slipping. Best of both worlds. an 1800-2000 converter is basically a stock camaro unit. corvettes were stock with a 2400 (highest stock unit for the 700R4) Stock rebuilt 700R4's here are $1000-$1300 one that takes an honest 600HP is $2900 - $3200. Hope this helps. just my $.02

Thanks for the input jfg455. I wasn't really buying the claim of 600 hp. What I really need is something to hold up to 450 ft pounds of torque in a 3500 pound vehicle without tires that can hook it up. It's going to be a cruiser. I think the only mods from stock is the "heavier" clutch pack and the pressure switch. Advise?

The Rockwell has 5.13:1 gears with 33" diameter tires. Do I want to go with the higher stall speed? I never quite understand how that works.

 

[DJ3100]

It sure is looking good. Power hammer huh? I could use one of those....

Thanks bonehead. I've got a 50 pound mechanical forging hammer. It's a tire hammer we built in a workshop a few years ago. Does one hit or multiples, is 110V. I have 3 power hammers, but 2 is really enough. It will sell for $2000.
If you're interested let me know.

 

[jfg455]

Sorry, this might get long winded....

"Stall" speed is just a relevent term really. It is where the fluid coupling ability of the torque converter overcomes the fins insides ability to shear the fluid. Or in laymans terms the point at which the torque converter stops slipping. At idle it is 100% slip. Over the stall RM it is close to 0 but not quite (give or take 8-12%). Clear as mud? Good!

Now take the same converter and put more power to it and suddenly the "stall" speed goes up (more power the greater the shearing ability of the fins) so it is never a set in stone RPM number.

With your rear gear you would probably get that trans to live in there for a long time. Make sure the TV cable is adjusted right (as 700R4's it controls line pressure which is VERY important to a clutch pack staying engaged) and run the biggest cooler you can on it. Most 700R4's will either break the sprag under extreme load or they burn the 3-4 clutch pack out of the input housing due to high torque application at a low RPM speed (think heavy vehicle towing at 60 mph in 4th gear). If you build a mild 454 with a tunnel ram and say a .550/.550 or a .580/.580 cam and a decent set of heads you might want the stall to be in the 2600-3000RPM range. Epsecially with the tunnel ram. Weak low speed air signal through the carbs (long large intake runners) will rob you of your low end torque. But if you let the motor spin up a lite more (2600-3000) everything is starting to work well. Then as a bonus when you are light throttle highway cruising the converter locks up reducing cruise heat (in the trans) and bringing your cruise RPM down about 300-450rpm. Best of both worlds. It will take off nice (no sluggishness getting going) and highway cruise like a daily driver. -