Hole in the head project

[offroadrolls]

That'll work. Looks good!

 

[MercuryMac]

If building a hotrod was easy, everyone would be doing it.
Carry on.

 

[Old Iron]

I installed a 6.2 LS out of a 2012 Camaro into my 65 GTO then lowered it. Ended up punching a hole in the pan so I raised it 2" and like mucho better.

 

[Flipper_1938]

I installed a 6.2 LS out of a 2012 Camaro into my 65 GTO then lowered it. Ended up punching a hole in the pan so I raise it 2" and like mucho better.

Yeah, a sensible ride height makes sense, but I walk past sensible cars at car shows. I keep flip-flopping on what the ride height will be.

Maybe skid plate the bottom of the crossmember halo?

 

[Flipper_1938]

I was looking at pictures on my phone and figured out that I can't have as big of a hole in my crossmember. My lower a-arm mounts are where the tubing would be. I may just notch like this and box the hell out of it.

 

[offroadrolls]

The other day I wondered about a Fatman kit?

 

[Flipper_1938]

Trying to stay low buck. ...trying. I cut and then I cut some more trying to get it low enough. Now I'm trying to figure out how to add "some" strength back in. I'm trying to build a tubular k-member in the middle. I notched out the bottom to sink a piece of 1.5x3 across the back and then box in the sides and bottom. 1.5x1.5 in pics because that's easier to play with.

 

[gene49]

Sorry, but it doesn't give this guy a very warm fuzzy feeling, especially with the control arms attached to the nearly completely missing cross member.
I'll be watching how you brace this one. Is there an inch and a half clearance under the original crossmember that can be used to brace it?
Had an old dirt track car where they cut the complete center out of a crossmember under the motor, then added a bolt in plate on each side and built a bolt in tube shaped center that was 2" below the original center center section, and there was a bolt on tube brace above the motor. That chassis was over 20 years old when it came to me (was one of the best handing cars I ever had). We used it for 3 years, then sold to to someone else that used it a couple more years.

Basically, they welded a couple pieces of 1/4" plate to the cut ends of the original cross member that hung below the motor's oil pan drilled the plate for a couple 3/8" bolts, then welded a couple 1/4" plates to a piece of tubing with matching bolt holes to bolt up to the plates welded to the frame. Above the motor they made a single tubing shaped triangle part that bolted to the firewall and the top of the body structure, designed to clear critical motor components. That was needed to prevent the frame rails from rolling in at the top.

 

[offroadrolls]

Use solid or poly motor mounts and the engine will help to act as a cross member. I know that sounds kind of Jenky but, I kinda remember V8 Vega's not having a cross member? Of course those aren't the best example of safety. I had a couple back in the day. One used a 2x4 with lag screws coming down through the floor as a cross member for the tranny.
Edit: They didn't have a cross member under the engine. Picture 3 looks like it was up in front of the engine?

https://www.yenko.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=186846&stc=1&d=1613132527https://

www.yenko.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=186852&stc=1&d=1613132585

https://www.yenko.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=186845&stc=1&d=1613132527

 

[Flipper_1938]

Sorry, but it doesn't give this guy a very warm fuzzy feeling, especially with the control arms attached to the nearly completely missing cross member.
I'll be watching how you brace this one. Is there an inch and a half clearance under the original crossmember that can be used to brace it?
Had an old dirt track car where they cut the complete center out of a crossmember under the motor, then added a bolt in plate on each side and built a bolt in tube shaped center that was 2" below the original center center section, and there was a bolt on tube brace above the motor. That chassis was over 20 years old when it came to me (was one of the best handing cars I ever had). We used it for 3 years, then sold to to someone else that used it a couple more years.

Basically, they welded a couple pieces of 1/4" plate to the cut ends of the original cross member that hung below the motor's oil pan drilled the plate for a couple 3/8" bolts, then welded a couple 1/4" plates to a piece of tubing with matching bolt holes to bolt up to the plates welded to the frame. Above the motor they made a single tubing shaped triangle part that bolted to the firewall and the top of the body structure, designed to clear critical motor components. That was needed to prevent the frame rails from rolling in at the top.

Yeah it doesn't give me a warm, fuzzy feeling either. I've got a sheet of some high strength steel .100" that I had planned on stabbing the whole crossmember from side to side (with a ton of rosets) I might go two layers thick. I had also considered a 1/4 plate under the whole crossmember, if I can figure out how to bow it to match. Not 100% sure what the ground clearance under the thing is supposed to be. I didn't study it too hard. I knew I was gonna change it. I had no idea I was gonna have to try so hard to fit a LS.

 

[Flipper_1938]

I slept on it and decided stacking two pieces of 1.5 x 1.5 is better than a single 1.5 x 3. It let's me make these welds. On bigger tube, there is nothing to weld to.

 

[Flipper_1938]

I'm hoping the 1.5 x 3 tube section is stronger than a tube k-member.

 

[gene49]

Guess maybe I'm not getting the full picture of what you are doing.
Just keep in mind the both upper control arms are attached to that crossmember you have cut all the upper strength out of. If you don't add that upper bracing back in, the control arms will roll the frame rails.

The tube crossmember is actually using the motor mounts to keep the control arms from moving (at least I assume the flat brackets on the outer ends are where the control arms bolt on).

 

[Flipper_1938]

The car is a unibody car. The subframe is bolted in in 4 places. Upper control arms are mounted on the upper surface (straddling the coil spring pockets). Lower control arms mount near the rear of the back of the piece I'm cutting, the forward mount is where that bowed out crossmember is. That piece is welded to the subframe. Pads on top are where motor mounts went.

 

[Flipper_1938]

Maybe a truss between the main crossmember and the one out front?

 

[gene49]

I'm getting a batter idea of what you are dealing with now, those pictures helped a lot. Its really not far from what I was thinking. Most of the modern cars have subframes bolted to a unibody shell. Mopar has been doing that since the very early 60s.

I have never seen an LS motor from the bottom. In this last picture, how close to the location of the just removed motor mounts will the LS motor mounts be, based on the current oil pan, and how high above the top of the oil pan will the actual mounts be?

Would you feel confident using the sides of the LS block as bracing for the frame rails? Strong motor mounts with very little rubber in them (eliminate as much side to side movement as possible) may be enough bracing to solve the problem.

Is the subframe mounted on rubber bushings? If so, maybe use solid motor mounts?

 

[Flipper_1938]

This isn't your normal LS oil pan. Most are rear sump. This is off of a 2004-2006 pontiac GTO. It has a front sump and a raised section in the rear to clear steering....and the filter relocated to the front.

I bought street rod universal motor mounts with small-ish poly mounts.

 

[Flipper_1938]

These are the style mounts I bought. Here is where someone installed a LS using a corvette intake.

I'm trying like hell to get my motor low enough to use a truck intake (I have pictures of a truck motor in one of these cars).

 

[Flipper_1938]

I would love to see the subframe and oil pan in this car. It is a truck motor under the big engine cover.

 

[Flipper_1938]

I bought a set of 4th gen camaro pedals off of marketplace. Hopefully, I can make these work and have a clutch master inboard of the wiper motor. ....and hook up a throttle cable easier.

Now to read up on diy hydroboost swaps.